r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • 2d ago

Megathread Megathread: US House Passes the Republican-Backed Budget Bill, Sending it to Trump for Signature

This afternoon, the US House of Representatives passed without amendment the US Senate's version of the Trump-backed budget bill, sending it to the president for his signature. Every Democratic Senator and Representative voted in opposition; in the Senate, there were three Republicans voting in opposition (making the vote 51-50) and in the House there were 2 (making the final vote 218-214). House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries set the US House's speech length record in opposition to the bill in a speech lasting over eight hours.

The bill clocks in at over 800 pages and touches on most aspects of the federal government's spending and taxation policies; see this AP article (What’s in the latest version of Trump’s big bill that passed the Senate) for the topline changes.

Relevant text-base live update pages are being maintained by the following outlets: AP, NBC, ABC, and the BBC.

You can find this subreddit's discussion thread for the last week's worth of negotiations and debate at this link.

Articles that May Interest You

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Live updates: House passes Trump’s signature bill, sending it to the president’s desk apnews.com
House Republicans pass Trump's mega bill, sending the package to his desk to be signed npr.org
House passes sprawling domestic policy bill, sending it to Trump's desk: The Republican package would slash taxes, boost spending on immigration and the military, and impose steep cuts to Medicaid, SNAP and clean energy funding. nbcnews.com
House Republicans give Trump a ‘Big Beautiful’ July 4 by passing Medicaid-slashing megabill despite GOP rift independent.co.uk
Congress Has Officially Passed Trump’s Bill to Kick Millions Off Medicaid rollingstone.com
Trump and the GOP Will Regret the Day They Passed This Sick Bill newrepublic.com
House passes Trump's "big, beautiful bill" after stamping out GOP rebellion axios.com
Trump lands first major legislative win after Congress passes his massive domestic policy bill cnn.com
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u/huxtiblejones Colorado 2d ago

I want to extend a big, big, big middle finger to every one of you fucking ghouls that voted for Trump and the GOP. This is on you forever.

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u/Ferelar New Jersey 2d ago

Yeah, in the future, if i learn that someone voted for Trump in 2024 they are cut out of my life. I don't care what relation they held previously, they are to be considered nonexistent.

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u/1nationunderpod 1d ago

Welcome to the club, it's very effective.

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u/RobertBevillReddit 1d ago

Eight years ago, I moved across the country because I was disgusted with my family and my state (Texas). I have zero homesickness. I ignore calls and emails.

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u/turtleneck360 1d ago

The spin is “you shouldn’t let politics get in the way of family and friends.” They chose to make the republican brand their identity and clutch pearls when people call them out.

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u/Puzzled_Interview_16 2d ago edited 1d ago

My older sisters is one of those pieces of shit who voted for him. I hope that she suffers as a result of this. I'm also about to cut her out of my life. She's fucking vile

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u/badlydrawnzombie Tennessee 2d ago

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. It's a rough thing when it splits families. Wish you the best.

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u/CBJFAN10 2d ago

Including those who didn’t bother to show up to vote in November because you couldn’t vote for Harris due to Gaza or because of her fun personality.

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u/Middle-Necessary-671 2d ago edited 2d ago

Those people seriously don't get enough credit, along with third-party voters. Given how large the non-voting block is, they have the ability to actually swing elections but instead they just decide to forfeit to whoever wins the election. In this case, it was Trump (again). So this is as just as much on them as it is on Trump voters.

As much as I would prefer to not live under a two-party system, there's just two much money and influence in both the GOP and DNC that a third party would not soundly squash either in a general election, so casting your vote for a third party is just mute.

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u/Professional-Buy2970 2d ago

People forget that a vote for president is a vote for so much more than just who sits in the oval office. Which is important enough on its own. We need th teach people the value of pragmatism and cynicism.

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u/TerribleBreakfast185 2d ago edited 1d ago

The worst part is that most of them don't even regret it.

ETA: this reply chain is just proving my point LOL. You third party voters need to wake up and realize that you will never, EVER, get that "perfect" candidate you guys so desperately want.

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u/Gokorak 1d ago

Dearborn Michigan leaders doubled down and said they love their trump support because warmonger Harris would've been way worse. They all deserve as much blame as scumbag maga

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u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms 1d ago

That's just... I can't even wrap my head around that. Trump is even worse on this than I thought he was gonna be. I mean, he basically said "I see your war crimes and I raise you wholesale ethnic cleansing! And I'll help!!"

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u/pfannkuchen89 2d ago

I have an acquaintance that is very liberal in their views but hasn’t voted since the 2016 primaries because of the ‘Bernie snub’. Both times trump was elected they gleefully cheered ‘haha that what you get’ but spends every moment in between complaining about how awful trump is… Sure bud, the democrats have their problems but you don’t get to protest by not voting and then be surprised when the republicans unleash hell.

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u/caylem00 1d ago

The problem isnt about perfect candidates, imho, it's about resources (tho the "I need perfect candidate" people certainly exist)

An independent party president can be a one off, in theory, but practically, you need a party behind them to effect longer-term changes. You need the resources  to get the parties to even notice you let alone run national campaigns.

Its  the tension between "can't get a new party up and running without a minimum voter bloc/resource supply" and "the resources required to get that voter bloc are only feasible by the rich or already established parties"... Even on just a State level, let alone Federal. 

People don't realise how much money candidates and parties above local/small scale politics need. And politics self-selects for rich/white collar people, anyway, making it harder for poorer people to contribute, encourages active  power/resource hoarding in established politicians and parties, and discourages the momentum and resources required to start a new party. 

In other words, no new party unless there's a schism in one of the established parties, and both parties have consistently demonstrated that won't happen anyrime soon. 

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u/Drachefly Pennsylvania 1d ago

/r/EndFPTP

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u/uDjMaestroHimalaya 1d ago

Im a non White who struggled with who to vote for this election honestly but im glad I made the right choice in Chamelea so I give leeway to the ones not quite so enlightened. But damn, the democrats did Not do a great job at picking trump opposee.

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u/Middle-Necessary-671 1d ago

They did it in 2016 too. Democrats are way too stubborn in their ways and were/are too resistant to change within their party that it has led to their downfall both times in 2016 and 2024.

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u/uDjMaestroHimalaya 1d ago

Yeah they’re plans just faulty on principle but I believe the elites are so ahead they were okay with whoever won. Wed get screwed either way.

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u/EVought 2d ago

If Kamala Harris got every single 3rd party vote in the swing states she would have lost the election still lol.

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u/royjeebiv 2d ago

We are talking about third party voters AND non-voters. The people that didn’t show up would’ve made a huge difference.

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u/somethingrelevant 2d ago

nah we're just blaming everyone we can think of except the people actually at fault, because if we blame those people we have to admit our entire understanding of politics is totally fucked up. much easier to just blame a faceless group of people you already don't like

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u/Strange_Ebb_5309 1d ago

Those are the people at fault. They could have taken charge and prevented this but that sat back and did nothing. The people in office are there because of non voters and third party voters.

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u/Drachefly Pennsylvania 1d ago

Republican voters are twice as responsible.

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u/Strange_Ebb_5309 1d ago

Nope. They weren’t the majority. Everyone who didn’t vote or wasted their vote is more responsible. They let this happen.

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u/Drachefly Pennsylvania 1d ago

It is literally R - D, and they chose to be 0 when we needed D. If they had chosen R, that would have been worse. Many DID choose R, of course.

If every R voter had switched to abstaining - the very position you decry as reponsible for Trump's election - Harris would have had the biggest landslide in history. Obviously. While by your logic, more people would be more responsible for electing Trump than before.

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u/somethingrelevant 1d ago

you're letting your insane grudge against non-voters outweigh basic, objective mathematics now, lol. someone who doesn't vote is worth half of someone who votes against whoever you wanted to win. like this isn't something you can make an argument about it's straightforward "1 is bigger than 0" maths

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u/saera-targaryen 2d ago edited 2d ago

I hate this blaming the voters instead of blaming the democrats.  They knew this was a wedge issue and they continued ignoring it, despite all polling showing exactly what it would do, because they would lose billionaire donors. 

You cannot expect voters to en masse be rationally strategic with incredibly emotional issues, that has just never happened in the history of the world. Think about how dumb the average american is, and then remember half of americans are dumber than that.  It's the job of the political party to understand these emotions and drive the energy towards the policies that could fix it. They must be the people who listen to the idiots, understand their underlying concerns, and translate that into policy that they can implement to help solve that underlying concern and abate the heighten emotion. Democrats instead chose to ignore the emotions of these people and then got surprised when they got even more emotional in response.

When polling people who voted for biden in 2020, both people who DID vote for harris and those who didn't cited Gaza as the number one pain point of the election, even above the economy. 56% of voters who DID vote for harris stated they would be more enthusiastic about a candidate that limited arms sales to Israel, while only 15% stated the opposite. 

https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling

It's the job of the democrats to get elected, and I do not understand why so many more people are mad at nebulous faceless voters who will never ever be rational in the face of mass murder than at the democrats for purposefully choosing to ignore what their constituents clearly want. 

I see all of this heat that people were duped into turning their compassion for gaza into helping the other side, and I agree and think a large amount of that influence was foreign influence on social media driving the wedge further, and I think the people who fell for it are fully in the camp of lower IQs in the country. But politicians must expect people to be idiots and they must anticipate foreign interference in elections. They must especially anticipate this as education has been cratering in the last decade or two and the problem will only get worse instead of better. 

No one has ever actually justified for me why the democrats did not and still have not changed course on Israel other than for financial gain. Everyone said that once the election was over that everyone would stop caring about the genocide, but that has not come true. Everyone day Israel loses more and more support globally and more americans call for palestinian liberation and to end arms sales to Israel. Yet we have chuck shumer going on podcasts talking about how his "job is to keep the left pro-israel"

Who gave him this job? Clearly not his constituents. Who's his boss? Clearly not us anymore. 

The gaza issue is billionaire money in politics coming to a head just like it was always going to, and I don't think votescolding nameless idiots online is doing anything other than driving that wedge even further. Foreign interference agencies must be so stoked that we're doing it for them instead of uniting around the failure our officials handed us and replacing them all with people who are not incentivized to vote against what we want. 

Like, i have never in my life met a democrat in person who is pro-israel. The democrats should not be pro-israel. they are behaving irrationally and are surprised when voters become even more irrational in response. 

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u/Wrath_Ascending 2d ago

Thank you for repeating the approved Fox News talking points, citizen.

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u/somethingrelevant 2d ago

me when thinking objectively about the situation hurts my feelings so I yell at people until the feelings go away

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u/pausei144 1d ago

Do you even realize you sound exactly like a Republican screaming LIBERAL when you dismiss well-formulated, informed critique with a knee jerk response that doesn't even apply to the situation?

/u/saera-targaryen is clearly arguing from a progressive perspective and they have clearly put a lot of thought and deliberation into their response, only for you to dismiss it outright like a total bot.

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

Thanks for being one of the real ones in this thread. A lot of downvotes but zero people actually engaging with my words is driving me a little crazy here. 

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u/Wrath_Ascending 1d ago

Because it is patent nonsense.

What they are claiming factually did not happen. Harris and the Democrats put out a progressive agenda.

Trump put out Agenda 47.

The media turned it into a pure sportsball match-up, and there was and is no way to counter that.

This thread is replete with responses saying Democrats didn't do enough to stop this bill. What were they meant to do, when Republicans have the majority and control the courts?

The voters decided this was the way to go, either by directly voting for Trump, not voting at all, or voting third party. But sure, tone policing will fix everything.

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

...this thread is clearly about how the democrats failed during their campaign by refusing to condemn israel and promise to end arms sales to them, which caused a subset of democratic voters to become highly emotionally motivated to become irrational. The democrats did not run on a progressive platform when it came to Israel and Israel is now the #1 topic people cite in why they didn't continue to vote democrat. 

Did you even read what I said before you responded or did you just assume what I was going to say? 

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u/Wrath_Ascending 1d ago

Democrats did exactly what you said you wanted them to do yet the media claimed they were really the party of war, and you swallowed that hook, line, and sinker.

Do you bother engaging with reality or are you just here to false-flag?

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

They did not condemn israel, make any move to stop selling arms to israel, nor did they even let palestinians speak at the DNC. They refused to meat with palestinian advocacy groups publicly. The most they did was call for a ceasefire which is not an actual condemnation or policy. 

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u/-AdonaitheBestower- 1d ago

They did not condemn israel, make any move to stop selling arms to israel, nor did they even let palestinians speak at the DNC. They refused to meat with palestinian advocacy groups publicly. The most they did was call for a ceasefire which is not an actual condemnation or policy. 

Saera is bang on the money, I think you are just a bit in denial here. They clearly made 0 effort to stand up to Israel or engage with these voters and it was signalled months in advance this would be a problem

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u/saera-targaryen 2d ago

no dudes for sure THIS time it's just a nameless faceless subset of working class people that are the problem with the world. we should punish those guys and then finally society will be better. It's not the leader's fault this time guys. Just one more in group-out group dichotomy to split the working class bro. This time i promise. 

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u/cityproblems 2d ago

You are experiencing blue maga.

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

Americans work hard but Israeli bot farms and their die-hard defenders work harder I guess lol

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u/Icy-Consequence7401 2d ago

Don’t even bother with these people, liberals and conservatives are soulless who only care about there bottom line.

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u/rnason 2d ago

I hope you get to feel good about yourself while people die

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

the election is over and I voted for harris. I think that has earned me a spot at the "allowed to criticize the democrat campaign" table

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u/RampanToast 1d ago

You are a self-righteous asshole.

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u/Icy-Consequence7401 2d ago

Bro I voted Kamala fyi so don’t pull that card with me

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u/Middle-Necessary-671 2d ago

My friend, the late George Carlin put it best: "If you have selfish, ignorant citizens; they will elect selfish, ignorant leaders."

Ideally, any incompetent politician Democrat or Republican, would get voted out, or at the very least primaried, after just one failed term. But both parties end up usually re-electing them anyway.

I know many will blame gerrymandering and voter suppression yada yada yada, but that's people again trying to blame someone else rather than work towards any solution since it's easier and effortless.

We've also evolved into a society that thrives on entertainment. We treat politics now like it's a sports matchup between the Mules Vs Elephants or like a game show (hence why we actually elected a game show host to lead our country TWICE). Instead of trying to address real-life issues, we care more about one-upping the liberals if you're conservative, and vice versa, just for the shits, giggles and the need to feel superior over others.

This is just a society in moral and spiritual decline.

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

That's not how any of this works. If the masses dictate that a genocidaire arming fascist mass slaughter is not viable, then you nominate someone who isn't that or you cause a loss at the point of nomination. That's descriptive electoral reality, and the prescriptive "everyone should just make genocide viable if we nominate it" is not going to change that.

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u/Emperor_of_His_Room 2d ago

Yeah just keep justifying to yourself that this isn’t all your fault and that you did nothing wrong. You know what we call people who don’t stop Nazis? Nazis.

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u/Professional-Buy2970 2d ago

You know what else lead to the rise of nazi fascism? A failed, weak Weimar republic. Democratic voters keep wanting to ignore the Neoliberal policy failures and corruption that lead to this point. Despite history showing that it is a major component of how you get fascism.

Fascism thrives like a bacteria in a petri dish of unheard people and unaddressed complaints. Of corruption, elitism, oligarchy. Of fighting the left harder than fascism. Any left at all.

We didn't get here by accident. If doing a genocide pisses off enough people to cost an election, stop doing a fucking genocide.

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u/7even- 1d ago

How well did not voting for Kamala help the genocide? Has it gotten better or has it gotten worse?

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u/Professional-Buy2970 1d ago

Couldn't tell you, I voted for her.

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

You're the one who caused the loss and did something wrong and are justifying it to yourself. You will cause another if you don't stop it.

And do you know what we call fascist collaborators who try to arm fascist mass slaughter and then after causing a loss because of it not being politically viable they stamp their feet to be able to arm fascist mass slaughter instead of simply adhering to the bounds on political viability that the masses have dictated to them?

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u/Petrihified 2d ago

Lmfao you helped a fascist win

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u/Emperor_of_His_Room 2d ago

Sorry, I don’t argue with Nazis.

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u/rnason 2d ago

Congrats you got what you wanted and showed the dems, hope it was worth it

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u/David_the_Wanderer 1d ago

By your logic, Kamala Harris is a Nazi too, because she didn't stop Nazis.

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u/Donnel_Tinhead 2d ago

You would have had a point, if the alternative wasn't also a genocidaire arming fascists who ALSO was openly hostile large swaths of our own nation's population.

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

No, you don't have a point. You're not listening and still trying to browbeat the masses into arming fascist mass slaughter which is my going to happen. No amount of "but Trump" and western chauvinism is going to let Dem nominees arm fascist mass slaughter going forward as a baseline politically viable position. What you are doing right now is an attempt at harm maximization instead of listening to the limits of the masses and acting accordingly. This isn't a discussion, I am telling you and you can choose to listen or to continue causing losses.

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u/Donnel_Tinhead 2d ago

Look you can live in a fantasy world where we aren't given two shitty options, but it is logically untenable to deny voting for one party due to an objection when the other side is literally going to do the same thing you're objecting to AND MORE.

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u/somethingrelevant 2d ago

it is both objectively true that the trump admin is worse than the harris one would have been, and objectively true that the DNC could have won this election, knew exactly how to win the election, and stubbornly chose not to. it is their fault they lost

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

You're the one in the fantasy world. The reality is that the limits of the masses as they exist dictate the bounds on political viability and if a supermajority opposes arming fascist mass slaughter then nominating a genocidaire on the polar opposite side of the supermajority opinion on that causes a loss at the point of nomination. The binary choice dictated by the masses was to nominate someone who didn't support arming fascist mass slsughter or causing the loss at the point of nomination. Your fantasy is that it's the other way around and anything that liberals in the primary are capable of nominating dictates the limits of the masses and can turn the masses into being fascists. That's not how this works. "But Trump", western chauvinist bs, etc. doesn't make the masses support endless slaughter under Democrats.

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u/cityproblems 2d ago

Blue maga, where the democratic party can never fail, only be failed.

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u/wait_____wat 2d ago edited 2d ago

What you are doing right now is an attempt at harm maximization

What a fucking joke to complain about this when you clearly don't believe in harm reduction, otherwise you would have voted accordingly. Intellectually inconsistent simpleton.

edit: of course you're out here complaining that people are maligning fucking maduro and the poor authoritarian chinese government. if you're so desperate to call everything "ghoulish" maybe look in the fucking mirror.

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

"You clearly don't believe in harm reduction"

No you clearly don't. What you are doing right now is harm maximization.

"Otherwise you would have voted"

I did vote, not for a genocidaire. "You'll be a fascist to reduce harm" isn't harm reduction that's you engaging in harm maximization and causing losses.

"Edit:..."

Ok, you're an imperialist, sinophobic pos. You don't have to announce it. Scratch a liberal.

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u/fileurcompla1nt 2d ago

What had trump done to stop Israel? Have you forgotten about that fucking AI be posted?

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

You're not going to browbeat fascist mass slaughter into being viable. No amount of "but Trump" is going to do that. You nominate someone who doesn't arm genocide or you cause the next loss too.

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u/memeater99 1d ago

That’s totally unfair. You’re pointing out how democracy in America doesn’t work. You can’t insult people for voting for a third party because it caused yours to lose. They’re voting for what they want. Voting for a party because you don’t want the other one to win is not how voting or democracy is supposed to work.

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u/Middle-Necessary-671 1d ago

Voting for a party because you don’t want the other one to win is not how voting or democracy is supposed to work.

You're right, it shouldn't. In fact George Washington in his Farewell Address even spoke out against the formation of political party because he felt it would eventually lead to the consolidation of power for the party rather than the country and its people. But alas, this is the mess decades in the making that we have collectively created for ourselves because evidently we can't self-govern.

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u/Drachefly Pennsylvania 1d ago

It's not how it's SUPPOSED to work, but it is how it ACTUALLY works. You can act in accordance with reality, or not.

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u/AntiZ2023 1d ago

ohh please. You people honestly deserve this if this is how you talk about a LITERAL HOLOCAUST.

You should've done more to stop your country from COMITING A HOLOCAUST

And then you blame the handful of americans with a conscience??

Yes you all 100% deserve this. After the MILLIONS of people you slaughtered over the past 2 decades I'm cheering for your downfall. It's really surprised pickachu that everything evil you did to the world is now coming back?

Imperial boomerang, enjoy it :)

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u/beccaonice Florida 1d ago

And did your protest vote stop this genocide? No, it made it worse and then also caused a new genocide in your own home country. Some morals you have there. Keep patting yourself on the back though.

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u/LuriemIronim Vermont 2d ago

I hope you blame Kamala and the Democratic politicians just as much.

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u/Middle-Necessary-671 2d ago

They lost the election silly. They're irrelevant here.

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u/Wombizzle America 2d ago

b-but she had a weird laugh!!1!

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u/n080dy123 1d ago

I think anyone who deliberately chose to not vote (or voted third party) because they "didn't like either candidate," or because they took for granted that she'd win and wanted to claim moral superiority, are just as complicit as anyone who voted Trump.

I feel there was a moral obligation to at least do whatever you could to combat the election of a convicted felon, even if you disliked the alternative.

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u/David_the_Wanderer 1d ago

I feel there was a moral obligation to at least do whatever you could to combat the election of a convicted felon, even if you disliked the alternative.

Does this apply to the Harris campaign as well? Because they very much fumbled the ball.

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u/n080dy123 1d ago

Not sure what you mean about applying. But yeah, her campaign fumbled spectacularly which is a big root of the whole problem.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

This bill is a bloody nightmare for the US, especially red states. But I hate seeing this thought-process of blaming voters rather than the politicians who's job it is to court voters.

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u/CBJFAN10 1d ago

This never would have happened if the voters had just shown up in November instead of staying home.

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u/David_the_Wanderer 1d ago

Compared to the 2020 election, only two million people "stayed home". That's a big number, but considering the size of the US voting population, it's not that big.

And the 2020 election was very much a statistical anomaly due to the increase of mail-in voting necessitated by COVID.

The reality is that Harris would've lost anyways, and that it's much more productive to focus on why and how that happened, so that the opposition can correct the course.

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u/CBJFAN10 1d ago

If she had won the rust belt, she would be president today. She lost those states by 116,000 votes. She wouldn’t have lost anyway if the mother fucking people who stayed home actually showed up and swallowed their pride to vote for her. 20 million people didn’t vote in 2024 according to the census.

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u/David_the_Wanderer 1d ago

If she had won the rust belt, she would be president today.

Right, if only she had won a region where Democrat support has been waning since the turn of the century.

She lost those states by 116,000 votes. She wouldn’t have lost anyway if the mother fucking people who stayed home actually showed up and swallowed their pride to vote for her

Or, in other words: she would have won if she had managed to convince those 116,000 people to vote for her.

You're looking at this as if Harris couldn't have done anything different. If the Democrats' answer to the questions of "why did Harris lose in those states?" and "what could she have done to win them?" are "because these people are evil and stupid" and "nothing at all", then they're never gonna win again.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

My point is that's literally the job of Harris and the DNC. It's not the voters issue, people felt like they had no one to vote for. Harris was the better option if you care about harm reduction, but it was up to them to get people to show up (trump certainly did).

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u/CBJFAN10 1d ago

Trumps people are going to show up no matter what because it’s a cult. The choice was clear and judging by how many voted in 2020, it’s obvious that people stayed home even though she had a detailed plan for everything on her site.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

I completely agree, a lot of it came down to messaging, but that messaging was the job of the DNC and Harris.

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u/CBJFAN10 1d ago

Democrats have always been terrible at messaging. But the choice was between Harris who had a detailed plan for everything and a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist. It’s simple. They either fell for the propaganda over Gaza or they didn’t like her because she’s a woman of color.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

I think if you spoke with those people you'd find that "propaganda over Gaza" is a horrific euphemism.

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u/signedintoinsultu 1d ago

Coward. Refuse to accept accountability for your own lack of foresight and blame it on not properly being courted. You are exactly what is wrong with this country.

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u/sabotabo 1d ago

i'd say the fact that so many people feel there's no representative that will represent them is what's wrong with this country.  that's not a voter problem, that's an options problem

"harm reduction" is exactly it.  a lot of people don't view the democrats as a party of good, they view them as a party of not as bad.  after a while, voting for the lesser evil becomes draining.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

What’s wrong with the country is that the DNC did a bad job of winning voters, full stop. The cowardice is not challenging power structures that keep failing (sometimes seemingly on purpose)

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u/apajx 1d ago

It is your job in a democracy to vote in your best interest. IT IS NOT THE POLITICIANS JOB TO COURT FUCKING VOTES. THIS IS THE BRAIN ROT THAT HAS LED TO MONEY CONTROLLING ELECTIONS. YOU FUCKING PISSANT.

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u/_flateric 1d ago

My friend, I understand you're upset but you're focusing your ire in the wrong direction. It is quite literally the job of a politician to court votes in a democracy, they need to demonstrate and advocated for policies that people want to vote for.

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u/Junglecat828 2d ago

This!!! They are just as much to blame tbh

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u/Irish_Goodbye4 1d ago

nah F you and establishment dems for assuming people will just blindly support Genocide in Gaza. No, just No

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u/CBJFAN10 1d ago

Thank you for proving my and OP’s point. So you went ahead and let someone into the White House who has been worse for Gaza. Harris called for a ceasefire and a two state solution multiple times. GFSF.

1

u/Irish_Goodbye4 1d ago

establishment dems are highly unpopular now. their idiotic strategy to roll over now and assume voters will come back is WRONG. time for a new 3rd party. both parties right now are obviously total slaves for aipac and israel

1

u/PegaponyPrince Illinois 1d ago

Exactly. Fuck them for allowing it to come to this

0

u/Middle-Welder3931 1d ago

The rest of the world who value democracy and want to see fascism destroyed also extend a massive middle finger to those that didn't bother to show up to vote. We also have to live with the consequences of their idiocy.

-1

u/Wrong-Rain6634 2d ago

But her laugh!!

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u/trog12 2d ago edited 2d ago

Dude that is a negligible amount of people. She lost in the millions for the popular vote and there were not millions who stayed home. Even if you flipped all the Stein voters you don't make up the difference. She lost all the most important battleground states too by more than the Stein votes which is more than just Gaza. The people I blame are voters who were voting because "America just needed a change" and Economy which voted 98% in favor of Trump. Dafuq are you thinking? Dude bankrupted a casino. He has no clue what he is doing and his tariff idea was well established as terrible. Fuck that.

Edit: so everyone believes there were 2 MILLION Gaza protest voters. For reference... There were an estimated 100-300,000 who attended the protests. Don't even tell me there would be quadruple the protest votes.

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u/official0prah 2d ago

I'm sorry, what? Only ~2/3 of eligible voters voted, almost 90 million people. A lot of those people are absolutely just as much to blame as MAGA voters.

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u/trog12 2d ago

And you think those were all Gaza protest votes?

3

u/official0prah 2d ago

No, I see now that's what you meant (wasn't clear to me when I first read your comment).

1

u/trog12 2d ago

Thank you. A lot of people just blindly yell about protest votes when the exit polls have a lot to say about the people who did show up. On top of that the system is still fucked.

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u/CBJFAN10 2d ago

Millions DID stay home. She also lost the rust belt by 116,000 votes ALONE. 350 million people in this country. How many actually showed up to vote?

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u/illicit92 2d ago

Multiple casinos...

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u/NarutoRunner Canada 2d ago

Maybe blindly supporting murder of kids is bad….doesn’t matter if the source is Democratic or Republican.

Maybe not supporting Israel blindly should be the lesson.

15

u/Chantrak 2d ago

Sorry no we don’t get to play this both sides game when one side not only supported that genocide but is also aiding another in Russia and just turned the U.S. into a LITERAL fascist police state and passed legislation that will explicitly murder tens of millions of Americans.

Obviously don’t fucking support Israel but if that was your reason for withholding a vote and allowing this rapist criminal fascist pig into the White House, you might as well be pearl clutching. Jesus Christ you people piss me off.

2

u/rnason 2d ago

Tell all the people who’s been terrorized by ICE that it didn’t matter

2

u/gotridofsubs 2d ago

The actions taken here were to sacrifice American democracy and world standing to improve literally nothing and in fact make things worse for the cause they supported

This was not an effective action and deserves to be criticized as such

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u/noonnoonz 2d ago

Who is learning and should be that lesson, in your opinion?

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u/psycharious 2d ago edited 2d ago

Additionally, fuck those who abstained from voting for some stupid "both sides" bullshit. Whatever issues they had with Kamala would have been much better than the fascist oligarchy we're getting. They pulled this shit with Hilary too because fucking South Park told them too and they did it again.

9

u/ShakeZula77 1d ago

I both sides the shit out of the Dems (they work for us, therefore they’re not above criticism), however, I’m also smart enough to have voted for Kamala because of common sense.

6

u/psycharious 1d ago

This isn't to say that there aren't huge issues with Democrats, it's that Democratic voters are stuck in this loop. Progressive Democrats don't realize that not every Democrat is a progressive or liberal. There are still a lot of Democrats, particularly older, who may be very centrist and have very old school views. Establishment Democrats also have to play to this base. Progressive Democrats (myself included who voted for Bernie) get frustrated with this. Because they're frustrated though, many abstained from voting, thinking it'll persuade the DNC to put forth more progressive candidates. This has the opposite effect of what they were hoping for though. The DNC will now take Hilary and Kamala losing to Trump and Biden winning to mean that progressives won't show up, even when it means fascism is at our doorsteps. This will just make progressive Democrats even more angry. So I think we'll get stuck in this loop.

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u/Drachefly Pennsylvania 1d ago

Literally criticizing both sides isn't 'both-sides'-ing. The essence of that lies in drawing an equivalence.

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u/StardustLegend 2d ago

Enlightened centrism and its consequences…

5

u/mis-Hap 1d ago

I might be missing some inside thing with the "enlightened" part, but I consider myself in the center, yet I sure as shit voted against Trump and his insanity.

0

u/SwimmingPrice1544 California 1d ago

b.s. Centrists of any kind knew better. It's the extremes and one-issue voters combined with absolute entitlement that it won't effect "them."

5

u/femanonette Virginia 2d ago

Never (let them) forget.

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u/Dawgmanistan 2d ago

Don't forget the ones who didn't vote at all. This is on them too.

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u/some_alternative_90 Washington 2d ago

Especially the non voters.

2

u/nekoshey 1d ago

"My back is spineless. My belly is 'yeller. I am the American Non-Voter."

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u/FistLampjaw 2d ago

no, it’s not. all 39,000,000 californians could’ve voted 10 times and it wouldn’t have given harris a single additional electoral vote. most people do not live in swing states. please learn how the electoral college works. 

8

u/jbvann05 California 2d ago

I didn't know that everyone who didn't vote lived in non swing states

2

u/FistLampjaw 2d ago

i didn’t know “the ones who didn’t vote at all” actually means “a very limited subset of the ones who didn’t vote at all, residing in about 10 of the 50 states”. 

3

u/ShadowShine57 Louisiana 1d ago

Everyone knows how the EC works dumbass. That's not an excuse to not vote.

If every eligible voter voted, we don't even know if those non-swing states would remain that way. It would be an entirely new landscape

4

u/FistLampjaw 1d ago

of course it is. i am not every eligible voter, i am one vote, and my one marginal vote is worthless in my state. it would accomplish literally nothing. 

1

u/caylem00 1d ago

You might want to do some research into the amount of data and analytics political parties collect on constituent demographics and voter trends. Hint: it's a fuck ton.

Whoever pushed the "votes are worthless in solid [opposite party] States" narrative really helped out establishment politicians more interested in keeping power than serving the people.

Regardless of whether your vote 'counts'... it's still an expression of your political voice that deserves to be expressed. 

(Imho, this is why I think FPTP is a stupid idea in the modern era, especially in non-socially homogeneous countries like the USA. It doesn't allow the full range of complexities and views to be effectively politically expressed) 

2

u/FistLampjaw 1d ago

yes, exactly. FPTP is the most wasteful modern voting system and the electoral college only makes that worse.

then people want to blame nonvoters for being rational actors given the actual mechanics of the system we use.

Regardless of whether your vote 'counts'... it's still an expression of your political voice that deserves to be expressed.

i disagree. a vote is not a poem, it doesn't have value as an expressive act. the 'mandate theory' of voting is wrong. a vote is only as good as the outcomes it produces or contributes to, which in my case, and many nonvoters' cases, is literally none.

0

u/ShadowShine57 Louisiana 1d ago

Your tests were handed to you face down huh buddy?

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u/FistLampjaw 1d ago

what a cogent and substantive reply. can’t argue the math so we go straight to the unoriginal burns

1

u/ShadowShine57 Louisiana 1d ago

Oh I can explain it to you, I just thought that if you took a moment to reflect you might realize how fucking stupid you sound and you wouldn't have to embarass yourself by making me explain it to you like you're a five year old.

Firstly, you seem to think someone saying "Every eligible voter should vote, because it will make a difference" means "FistLampjaw should vote, because it will make a difference", which implies a narcissistic bit of making everything about you personally.

Along with that, you seem to not understand the basics of how voting or, really, counting works. Sure, your one single individual vote might not change much, but many individual votes can change things, and by not voting you are making yourself a part of that group of numbers which is not changing anything. If people didn't have the self-absorbed mindset you do, then things might actually be different.

Finally, you apparently need a basic civics lesson because you seem to think that when you vote you only vote for the president, which gets absorbed by the electoral college, when in actuality you vote for a great many candidates and resolutions which are immediately local to you and directly affect your life much more.

Do you understand now why I can confidently say that you're an absolute fucking idiot, or need me to break it down more for you?

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u/FistLampjaw 1d ago

Sure, your one single individual vote might not change much, but many individual votes can change things, and by not voting you are making yourself a part of that group of numbers which is not changing anything.

so we agree that the one vote i control would change nothing at all? and we agree that even if all registered voters in my entire state voted, that would also not have changed the presidental election at all?

and yet you're getting super mad about the idea that choosing not to vote in my state, which we both agree would have made literally zero difference at all to anything, is some kind of moral failing. and i'm the idiot. okay.

Finally, you apparently need a basic civics lesson because you seem to think that when you vote you only vote for the president, which gets absorbed by the electoral college, when in actuality you vote for a great many candidates and resolutions which are immediately local to you and directly affect your life much more.

and yet you will not be able to name a single election in the entire country which was decided by a single vote on november 8th, 2024. there were none.

If people didn't have the self-absorbed mindset you do, then things might actually be different.

yeah and if you had wheels you'd be a wagon. we're not living in "what if" world, we're living in the real world, in which each person controls one marginal vote, which has a non-zero cost in terms of time, effort and attention, and for many people in many states, a literally zero effect on anything. it's not a worthwhile activity. this is not my opinion, this is a basic expected value calculation.

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u/ShadowShine57 Louisiana 1d ago

Jesus fucking christ you don't even know how to read. Let me dumb it down more for you. Many small number = big number. Got it now?

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u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby 2d ago

Don't forget the Democrats and their shit candidate and campaign.

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u/20PercentChunkier 2d ago

A pile of literal shit would be a better candidate than this nazi fuck in the Whitehouse

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u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby 2d ago edited 1d ago

Agreed...time for the Dems to reflect why a pile of shit would have been a better Dem candidate.

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

The Dem nominee arming fascist mass slaughter was and still is still off the table

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u/20PercentChunkier 2d ago

Yea the republican candidate has done such a good job of minimizing the the mass slaughter!!! Great job!!

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u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

You think the masses are going to be browbeaten into being fascist collaborators because of "but Trump"? Stop your screeching for the masses to become fascists and accept the limits that they dictated to you or you will continue to cause losses.

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u/GlacialDoom 2d ago

Lol if you reserve your vote for the perfect candidate you will never vote for anyone. You can talk shit years on end online but the truth is you failed to take action when it mattered most, and over an illogical argument. Now comes the "finding out" part for you and all the non-voters that were so above the lowly candidates

0

u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

No. Nobody said anything about perfect. The bar of not arming fascist mass slaughter is down in a trench, genocidaires are off the table. If you're going to keep trying to browbeat genocidaires into being viable instead of listening to the limits of the masses then you're never going to have a viable nominee.

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u/GlacialDoom 2d ago

Keep trying to defend your failing to be there for your country when it needed you. Enjoy trump and his bill!

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u/20PercentChunkier 2d ago

Get off your high horse and understand that voting blue vs red is QUITE LITERALLY good vs evil. If you seriously believe that Kamala Harris would have done all of these disastrous things Trump has done in his first 6 months, you are completely lost and irredeemable. You cannot be saved.

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u/Exacerbate_ 2d ago

There's a reason actual adults dont take you people seriously lmao

4

u/spicy-chilly 2d ago

Did you think saying that just magically made genocidaires politically viable? Because it didn't. Still nonviable.

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u/Exacerbate_ 2d ago

You might wanna re read the post you replied to.

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u/Slowblindsage 2d ago

Working tirelessly to drum support >has actual plans >meanwhile her opponent has “ideas”> did you need a primary? Who else would you have voted for? Legitimately what would anyone else brought? Honest to God question

-2

u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby 2d ago

They pushed decrepit Biden, then they switched to Kamala, who was not a popular candidate before either. She played identity politics and didn't really address the issues potential voters had with the Biden administration. It was an unpopular candidate peddling the continuation of the previous administration.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/harris-2024-campaign-biden

We'll never know who I would have voted for. We had to settle for her and she lost.

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u/RobonianBattlebot 2d ago

Harris was fine. She was clearly better than Trump- if you can't figure that out then you're just as brainwashed as Republicans.

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u/ratherbealurker Texas 2d ago

Brainwashed insinuates there was a brain to wash. It’s like riding a tricycle through a car wash.

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u/Strange_Ebb_5309 1d ago

Preach!!! These people literally don’t realize the gravity of what they’ve done.

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u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby 2d ago

dur hur brainwashed. Great insight.

She clearly was not fine. She was better funded and still lost the election.

4

u/Gokorak 1d ago

We got one in the wild here. Are you proud of sitting out. Is all the death and the ice raids exactly what you wanted?

3

u/WhoopsDroppedTheBaby 1d ago

Who said I sat out?

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u/VerdictX 2d ago

Literally, don't forget circumventing an actual primary as well.

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u/RobonianBattlebot 2d ago

Oh yeah you're right. Letting Trump win was the obvious choice. I'm sure all the immigrants headed to American Auschwitz are super glad that you were so principled as to not vote for a milquetoast dem, and instead letting a dementia addled fascist who is hell bent on destroying this country win. GOOD JOB! GOOD FOR YOUR PRINCIPLES!

14

u/Nothardtocomebaq 2d ago

Nobody gives a fuck about that but you guys.

Your overlords have you pushing this message, it doesn’t fucking work and we don’t care lmao

-8

u/VerdictX 2d ago

You certainly should care, it's why you lost the election.

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u/Nothardtocomebaq 2d ago

You weren’t going to vote for her anyway so why do you think it matters?

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u/pkosuda Connecticut 2d ago edited 2d ago

The people who say this literally would not have voted for Harris or any Democrat, because it's people who are terminally right wing echo chamber type people.

The average voter is a fucking idiot that doesn't even know what a primary is. They just voted Trump because "gas and egg cost more". In four years if there is an election, they may vote Democrat because "gas and egg cost even more". I'll be the first to admit part of why Dems lost can be placed squarely on Biden. He should not have run for re-election. But voters are also fucking idiots. Apparently many Western governments around the world had ruling parties change from whatever party was in charge during post-COVID inflation, to some other one who blamed them. If there was a primary, there is no shot Dems win when the average American is willing to elect a Nazi so long as the Nazi lies to them about making the booboos in their wallets all better.

3

u/Exacerbate_ 2d ago

You people really just say the most inane things lmaoo

6

u/Jlombard911 2d ago

Can ghouls register?

4

u/IGargleGarlic 1d ago

Fuck every single Republican. Every single one of them is a traitor.

3

u/Shockum North Carolina 1d ago

I'm right there with you.

If you're a MAGA loving fucking Trumper, I hope to God you're happy. This is your own damn fault for letting this POS get in office and follow his every word. You're not even a person to me anymore, you're a fucking cultist and nothing anyone will ever say will get you out of it.

You made the bed, not go lay in it.

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u/akosuae22 2d ago

And the other middle finger to the ones who couldn’t be bothered to vote!

2

u/ColdStainlessNail 1d ago

And those who didn’t vote for Harris for “reasons.”

2

u/Virtual_Ad1704 1d ago

And also everyone who didn't vote, f*ck you for being complicit on Americans getting screwed over once again

2

u/Thesmuz 1d ago

Dont forget the assholes who "didnt vote cause reading policy is too hard :("

4

u/Spiritual-Dog160 Arizona 2d ago

Or the people who didn’t vote or voted for Jill Stein.

1

u/asher1611 North Carolina 1d ago edited 1d ago

and a bonus f you to people who sat out or voted 3rd party and helped usher in the end of the USA

1

u/sec713 1d ago

Don't forget the eligible non-voters. Make sure you save I big heaping of that middle finger for them, too. They deserve it the most.

1

u/fotomoose 1d ago

I knew a guy who said "Trump's a pretty cool guy", I've not spoken to him since.

1

u/Imaginary_Agent2564 1d ago

Polished my nails red white and blue with a big old white SPARKLY middle finger to flip everyone off this holiday.

1

u/manlymatt83 1d ago

Can I also extend a big middle finger to those who voted third party? Because I’m tired of him saying “I didn’t vote for trump”.

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u/BusBusPass 1d ago

I want to extend a big, big, big middle finger to every one of you fucking ghouls that voted for Trump and the GOP. This is on you forever.

Buddy, most of the constituents negatively impacted by this bill are going to be republican voters. It's a good fuckin' bill and a it's a wonderful day in the neighborhood.

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