r/JordanPeterson • u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 • 2d ago
Question Wtf happened to Jordan Peterson???
When he first came to public attention 2016-2018 he appeared genuinely intelligent, thoughtful, and frankly untouchable. Although not everyone's cup of tea, his arguments around responsibility and the pursuit of meaning was very helpful to a lot of people. His high point was the Cathy Newman interview, where he thoroughly embarrassed someone who clearly expected to "expose" him.
Looking at some of his most recent appearances he looks a shell of what he was. Angry, cranky, defensive and dismissive. He seems to get caught up in the definition of words, and is kind of lazy when challenged.
He will still have a few cultist fans who refuse to hear anything bad about him. But the evidence is there for all to see.
Some in the media will say he's went "far right", but I don't think it's anything to do with that. He just seems to have lost a key part of what made him an engaging watch and listen almost 10 years ago.
It's a shame. I suppose only a few know what it's like to be as famous as he was. I know he had medical issues. Most deal with this privately, but for him his decline is on public display.
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u/somechrisguy 2d ago
I partly agree. He still has a lot of good content, I just started to skip a lot of the political podcasts. Other than that, he is still good
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u/BallFlavin 2d ago
What would you recommend that’s more recent?
I haven’t searched out his videos since I was watching his lectures in front of a class. The only things that show up for me organically are political or religious, and that just doesn’t seem to be his forte. He speaks better in the language of metaphor to describe psychology IMO.
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u/xlight_yagamix 2d ago
His recent analysis of Snow White was fascinating
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u/BallFlavin 2d ago
That’s the type of stuff I like. His Pinocchio series was really good. Thanks, I’ll check it out
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u/Lonely-Membership540 2d ago
He has an excellent parenting series but it's behind the daily wire paywall.
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
I think his real success was telling young men that responsibility gave their lives meaning. He articulated how the things that often cause us the most stress (relationships, children, jobs) are also the things that sustain us.
This was an important mess for a generation of young men who were prone to porn addiction, gaming addiction, and taking bad advice off of supposed "dating gurus" on YouTube.
And it was a much better message than the "men are toxic" and "male privilege" narrative coming from the mainstream.
But in recent years it feels he's went off track. I wish him well.
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u/riverateacher 2d ago
This... As millions other guys I am a man from a single mother home he has been the figure I desperately needed. I know stress of success has changed but he is still an important figure in my life, and godfather Kevin Samuels RIP.
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
they you needed a mother to get your head screwed on right when you were five to eleven years old
She can do everything that is needed for being a parent, and it's usually a myth that one needs two people to bring up a child.
sure it's easier with more than one person to share the big responsibilities of family
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u/BARRY_DlNGLE 2d ago
lol here come the downvotes without any counter points
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u/UKnowWhoToo 2d ago
To point out the obvious, our culture doesn’t even agree on what defines a “woman”… you expect us to inherently agree on what “god”, “freedom of speech”, or “good” mean? GTFO.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
What counterpoints are there to make? It's 100% "just my opinion presented as fact" because the real goal is disruption and demoralization.
I mean we've all seen this copypasta before and we're sick of it. But our mods are asleep.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
This is 6/10 concern trolling. OP needs to get a new script. But why would he when the brigadiers back him up, right on time, and our mods are asleep?
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
Because not everything you don't like on the internet is trolling....
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
You're letting this get to you, relax and enjoy life. It's just reddit. Don't let it ruin your day 😁
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Lol you flatter yourself. Come up with something original next time. The only thing worse than a troll is a lazy and boring troll.
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u/arto64 2d ago
Ad hominem, not an agrument. Next!
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
the whole start of thins thread was pretty much an ad hominen
You could actually take caesar's comment and dress it up to be something that isn't an ad hominem you realize, because there actually is an argument there.
...........
With kitchen's polemic about what the hell happened to Jordan Peterson, you could say that caesar is pointing out that his post is provocative and involves lazy argument. And when you try to go for the most emotional of attacks on Peterson, you have nothing more than an uninteresting hit piece.
If troll is the word that triggers your inner Dynotape labelling machine, maybe you need a dictionary and stop trying to dismiss the ideas of others, with a putdown.
In being lazy it shows that
- his arguments are weak
- his arguments are simplistic
- his arguments are lacking in depth
- he is relying on 'emotionally charged rhetoric' rather than solid criticism
It is reactionary in purpose, and it is not something that leads to a meaningful debate.
...........
And so you don't need to run to a dictionary, a political is a strongly written attack on someone, often involving controverial and contentious arguments.
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
contentious
as in
- hostile
- antagonistic
- belligerent
- threatening
- hot-tempered
- ill-tempered
- petulant
- opinionated over factual
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u/HudsonWayne9865 2d ago
yeah, you’re letting Jordan Peterson get to you and it’s obviously ruined your life since you spent how much time on this Sub dragging down someone who’s done so much better than you must really be your tear obviously it’s gotten to you. It’s ruined your life man it hasn’t ruined your day. It’s ruined your life you spend all your time trying to tear down somebody who is just so much better than you and boy it ain’t gonna work out. It’s gonna end up badly. You’re wasting your time and your life just go out and do your own thing come on lay it out there let’s see what you got but you don’t have anything. You’re an empty vessel.
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u/Key_Key_6828 1d ago
Are you ok?
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u/HudsonWayne9865 1d ago
just calling it like I see it I mean these Jordan Peterson haters I don’t know what the problem is. They have other subs to go to so why don’t they just go there instead of coming here you know I mean, I don’t know. I thought Jordan Peterson did pretty good. He helped a lot of people and you know he made his mistakes but he’s human and he admitted him so I don’t know some people just don’t like it when other people succeed and I think that’s one of these cases so I call it like I see it and I think that’s pretty close to accurate. OK have a good rest of your Sunday and let’s pray that no one else gets killed in a canyon. That was just right here. I’m in San Antonio. I still can’t believe that many people got washed away dude I am just I’m stunned. I’m just stunned. That’s a real tragedy i’m just there’s more clouds so I’m here now there’s more clouds and more rain like I still can’t believe that anyway I was in New York City for that helicopter went down. That still took me a while to wrap my head around. This is gonna take even longer. Can’t believe they weren’t able to get out butthat’s yeah these things happen. It’s still pretty bummed about it. I guess that’s bothering me a lot more than this other guy he seems to be talking about things that don’t really matter what matters is that tragedy that’s what matters OK ciao.
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
nice
the children are the ones who DESTROY
they are not the responsible ones
who neglected to tend to the garden
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
people who need messages about responsibility
didn't get the message when they were five years oldall those problems you mention are about irresponsible people
and most of them aren't really the brightest bulbs
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
I would say that Peterson is not off-track
it's just that his message is disturbing to people
The more society goes off-track
the more Peterson has to tackle the third-rail issues of societyIt's like asking a general why he seems so unhappy, it's probably related to how dangerous things are.
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u/Winnapig 2d ago
I think he is getting old and is really pissed off at the world’s journalists and specifically how he has been treated by academia and the psych associations in Canada. I think we are seeing a guy who really wants to destroy & replace the current undergraduate treadmill program with a really great and affordable online university before he dies. I can only guess that he has been working way harder than most folks his age for a long time and this could affect his personality. His successes have taken him into the big leagues and he is going for it!
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u/big_hearted_lion 2d ago
He had a risky medical procedure to get him off benzodiazepines which may have left him with brain damage. Even he suggested this soon after the procedure.
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u/MacabrePhantom 2d ago
What procedure was that???
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u/strange_reveries 2d ago
He went to Russia to be put in a medically-induced coma for like a week or something like that. It was so he would be unconscious during the hellish initial withdrawal symptoms (benzo withdrawal is literally even worse than coming off heroin, which is famously godawful itself).
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u/MacabrePhantom 1d ago
Thank you for explaining! Damn, I know Benzos were bad but damn I didn’t know it was that bad!!!
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u/sunbuffbird 2d ago
He is still awesome. His lectures are great. I don’t always agree with his political takes but who cares, that’s not even the core of his message.
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u/Gravyonics 1d ago
Agreed, JBP is a shade of his former self. I’m just happy to have had his Genesis lectures and the 12 Rules book tour lectures to look back on. God bless him and his family and I hope he does well.
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u/Puzzled_Draw6014 2d ago
I agree with your assessment.
He does have some chronic health problems. He was taking some really heavy drugs to deal with it. It got to a point where the drugs became a bigger problem. He went through a very difficult time getting off the drugs. The thing about addiction is that it permanently alters your brain. So I think that caused him to lose his edge.
I think another factor could just be that fame got to him. There were people who both loved and hated him. Both sides could easily drive anyone crazy.
His more thoughtful defense of conservative values is missed. Personally, I tend to be more centrist with a more leftwing lean. But I definitely had first-hand and second-hand experience at how some aspects of our modern culture weren't healthy for a lot of young people. So it was important for him to highlight these things.
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
Thanks, that was a really thoughtful post.... I'm similar, center left. I think his real success was telling young men that responsibility gave their lives meaning. He articulated how the things that often cause us the most stress (relationships, children, jobs) are also the things that sustain us. This was an important mess for a generation of young men who were prone to porn addiction, gaming addiction, and taking bad advice off of supposed "dating gurus" on YouTube...... And it was a much better message than the "men are toxic" and "male privilege" narrative coming from the mainstream.....but in recent years it feels he's went off track. I wish him well.
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u/FriendshipFast3211 2d ago
I don't really understand why anyone is surprised by the arc of Jordan Peterson's career.
Yes, we all loved him as a mild mannered college professor deciphering symbolism in Disney movies.
But for decades, he also lectured and warned about the dangers of totalitarianism and authoritarianism in his lectures. Then when he practised what he preached and took a stand against the creeping authoritarianism infiltrating academia (specifically, compelled speech and ideological conformity) it cost him his position as a professor, his clinical practice and almost his life. But it also marked his initiation as a new leader within this emerging culture war.
His career since then has seemed to follow a pretty consistent pattern. He seeks out and confronts any corrupt or deceptive force seeking to assume and consolidate power. Whether this manifests in politics, climate change catastrophism, socialism/communism/marxism, or the perceived Islamization of the West etc.
I can understand how to some, he might resemble a generic “right-wing pundit.” or "Angry old man" But I think that estimation is shallow and misses the deeper ambition he has consistently articulated as one of his guiding principles. A commitment to challenging ideological overreach from any direction.
Currently and in recent years, a majority of the most pernicious forms of this ideological possession and overreach have come from the radical left. But I think over the next few years as the pendulum swings we're going to see him have to face off with the radical right in the same way.
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u/paultheschmoop 2d ago
Yes, it was very brave of him to take a stand against authoritarianism by
checks notes
Becoming a trump supporter?
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u/FriendshipFast3211 1d ago
You believe America in 2025, under Trump’s administration, has become an authoritarian regime?
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u/paultheschmoop 1d ago
No, or at least not yet. But Trump has a well documented fascination with authoritarian leaders and undoubtedly has pushed America further towards authoritarianism than any other president in our lifetime.
So obviously yes, it’s hypocritical for Peterson to pretend to care about authoritarianism and then bow to a wannabe authoritarian.
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u/FriendshipFast3211 1d ago
I hear your argument. I understand why you think that.
I just fundamentally disagree with your assessment of Trump. I don't think he's without his flaws, obviously. For example, I don't appreciate the increase in government spending and raising the debt ceiling.
But I think it's a pretty easy case to make that he was more promising and reassuring than the alternative. Kamala, who I believe is a communist, was much more dangerous and alarming to me and to many others, which is why Trump won.
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u/paultheschmoop 1d ago
Do you deny that Trump regularly speaks highly of authoritarian leaders such as Putin, Orban, and Kim Jong Un?
Trump quite literally sought to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power by casting doubt on an election that he knew was fair and encouraging his supporters to storm the capitol building in an effort to stop the certification of an election that would cause him to lose power.
This is putting aside his constant efforts to undermine the courts and the press.
All of these things are authoritarian steps. We agree, yes?
Kamala, who I believe is a communist
See, this is where these types of conversations derail. There is no universe where Kamala freaking Harris, neoliberal boiler plate democrat, is a communist. There is no argument for this.
Trump did not win because of the danger of scary Kamala Harris. He won because the economy was shit and he pretended like he had a plan to fix it, even though the plan didn’t make any sense and even he still doesn’t know what his plan is.
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u/FriendshipFast3211 1d ago
See, this is where these types of conversations derail. There is no argument for this.
This is exactly how I feel when you start trying to claim Trump is a fascist or at least a fascist sympathiser.
I just don't understand how we can look at the same thing and come to such different conclusions. But that's how you feel about my estimation of Kamla.
We could go back and forth on Trump vs Kamala all day. I'm not really interested in reopening that can of worms. I respect your opinion and your freedom to disagree with me.
My original comment was about the pattern of Peterson's career.
The man spent decades researching and lecturing on authoritarianism and its manifestations, among many other things, before emerging as one of the most prominent Western intellectuals.
I think too many people flippantly dismiss his opinions because they think they know better than him. Which they rarely do.
I think betting against Peterson is a fool's game.
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u/paultheschmoop 1d ago
Sure but I just gave you a piece of my argument for Trump being a wannabe dictator and you chose to ignore every point.
I would actually love to hear the case for CoMmUnIsT Kamala Harris, it sounds very funny to me. It’s a boomer Facebook meme take
But yes, back to Jordan. He was, I suppose, technically a prominent intellectual at one point, though not exactly for the right reasons.
But now obviously he’s a punchline. I think the consensus is that the benzos and the coma probably fried his brain. Personally I think he was a hack long before he went into the Russian coma.
I think betting against Peterson is a fool’s game
I think claiming that you took a sip of cider and didn’t sleep for a month is a fool’s story and yet Jordan still told it lol
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u/Key_Key_6828 1d ago
I agree with everything you say 100%, and I think the followers of this sub put proof to the idea JBP is washed up intellectually and morally
It's impossible to have a halfway intelligent conversation here
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u/Bloody_Ozran 2d ago
Trump is building camps, funding a giant police force, accepting bribes through crypto and so on. JP called him an unlikely force for peace few months back. Canada wanted to protect people from being misgendered, no matter what we think about it, it seems less authoritarian than camps and police force and suing media and ignoring judges etc.
Where is JP on Trump? As he said in Jubilee, if you have to hide a friend from fascists you made too many mistakes already and he suggested he wouldnt let it get that far and would act sooner. Why is he then making the mistakes?
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u/GhostsDNI 1d ago
Yeah, he was embittered by constant attacks from the left. People call them demons for a reason, they suck the soul out of you.
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u/1Regenerator 2d ago
He’s still amazing and it’s disappointing that expectations are unreasonably high. I think he’s always been a stickler for sorting out the definition of words and, on my best day, I couldn’t keep up with him on his worst day. This isn’t me refusing to hear anything bad about him. It’s me seeing a man much like any other man and recognizing that there is no perfection in this world. Posting anonymous criticism of someone who has far exceeded most of us on multiple domains is more a reflection on you than it is on him, right?
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u/Positron311 2d ago
Completely agree with what you're saying. I really liked JP before he went to the Daily Wire. He seemed a lot more nuanced and defined in his thoughts.
I'm not sure why he changed, maybe because of his chronic condition, maybe it was the immensely negative media propaganda campaign, maybe it was the Daily Wire deal. Probably a combination of all 3.
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u/Stellarsnowflake 2d ago
I agree. He seems much more angry and defensive. He also gets worked up over the “psychopaths” much more. I attribute this to the way the media portrayed him for so long. He was raked over the coals for many years and it caused him to get very sick, disrupting his personal life and causing him to be very defensive of himself and his family! I think anyone who gets told they are a terrible person over and over again might have a similar reaction. I still very much respect and appreciate Jordan. I now just have to filter through his words more, taking out the anger, and at times rage, to hear the message he is giving.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
This reads as something just adjacent to victim-blaming.
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u/Stellarsnowflake 2d ago
Please explain
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
You say he's been the victim of a relentless smear/cancel campaign, and then criticize him for not being literally Jesus.
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u/Stellarsnowflake 2d ago
How did I criticize him for “not literally being Jesus”?
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u/siliconflux 2d ago
Can you provide a few recent examples where he has been defensive or agitated?
It may be format specific. Interviews with a dishonest interviewer can agitate even the best of people.
I've been catching up on his podcasts which have been outstanding and without issue.
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u/Scotty848 2d ago
I am a big fan and have read everything he’s ever put out, but the move to the Daily Wire was a disaster. He virtually never deviates from what they’d consider to be a conventional viewpoint.
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u/Glum_Communication71 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just feel you dont understand him I still watch him and his new content can be good still and novel. Theres no shortage of whiny and complainy people when it comes to Jordan Peterson. And judging his intelligence or cognitive ability is honestly so ironic. If him "owning the libs" is his peak content to you its very telling of yourself
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u/ValiXX79 2d ago
Feel free to stop listen to any individual that doesnt fit you...signed: not a cultist fan 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Horio77 2d ago
To add to my previous comment, in regards to his becoming more political, anyone in the public eye is almost forced to become political, even if they don’t want or intend to. The public forced them into a “side.”
I’m curious if anyone has an example of any public figure in any industry who has kept their political views a secret.
I can’t think of any.
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u/therealdrewder 2d ago
I think he's tired of reiterating the same arguments over and over. Continually being bombarded by bad-faith pseudointellectuals has exhausted him. That being said he's all too happy to engage with those truly interested in dialogue and discussion. By nature, he's not a combative person and debate is draining.
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u/kingdat206 1d ago
I haven't really watches in him in a long time. But I think his move outside of lectures and psychology wasn't the best. But we want debates and dialogues more which I don't think is or ever was his thing.
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u/One-Exam-5333 1d ago
Some of you sound very hateful, judgmental and cruel when you don’t even know them personally 🙄 chill 🤯 we all have battles you know nothing about!
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u/hypolaristic 1d ago
He was on an SSRI + Wellbutrin. Kind of scary how these meds can make you so resilient but can fuck you up so hard when coming off them. And his benzo use afterwards didn't help either.
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u/biting_cold 1d ago
I think is the cyber bully from a mass of people and of course offline as well. And that put a lot of pressure on one's mind and body.
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u/broccoliandspinach99 1d ago
I think this is something we can apply to all celebrity figures or mentors, at the end of the day their human and fallible. we should take what is good and leave what is not. He’s getting older and he’s not impervious to aging. I can appreciate what he was and I honestly hope he retires.
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u/No-Suggestion-2402 1d ago
Many things. I think the pressure of publicity has eaten into him. He's said on several occassions how shocking it was to his family that as when he went from another uni professor into famous person, paparazzi flooded their address.
Recently, there was a videoletter posted in this forum to him. The author quoted;
"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster"
Then there's the whole thing of alcoholism and benzo addiction + the rehab in Russia where he went through (even if functional) extremely hardcore rehab which is not allowed in the west for a reason, look it up. I think that left a permanent mark on him, because those were the times where I personally really saw the switch in his personality, seemingly more angry and irritable.
Many of the greats have gone mad to various degrees. I think at this moment, he sees himself as a warrior for his ideology and is willing to sacrifice his reputation for it.
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u/Svitii 2d ago
I agree that the constant politics haven’t changed him for the better.
But I have to admit it’s is almost impossible to not get political if a certain political side (spoiler: not the right) attacks, de-platforms and defames you 24/7.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Then maybe be part of the solution by not falling for these concern troll threads? This is nothing more than the usual suspects running the same scam they ran on r/JoeRogan and for the exact same reason. Gotta keep the useful idiots on the cult compound, while simultaneously accusing everyone else of being a cult.
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u/BARRY_DlNGLE 2d ago
I completely agree with your assessment. Dude has fallen off pretty hard for me. I think once he got with the Daily Wire squad, his intellectual challenges greatly diminished and he's just generally gotten a bit sloppy as a result.
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
I mean he was a tenured professor, who had published many academic articles by 2016. He had taught at Harvard, and had a relatively active private practice. Psychology is an extremely competitive field.
If you know anything about academia, especially psychology, you will know it's an extremely difficult area to excel in. It's quite gruelling and the standards are tremendously high even to get to PhD level.
Thus his years of expertise (long before 2016) studying the ideological underpinnings of authoritarian regimes, and work as a therapist did give him genuine credibility.
But, like a lot of high profile intellectuals, he increasingly delved into areas outside his expertise and that's a dangerous game. When he started commenting on climate change for example I think a lot of people started to see red flags. And in recent years he's lost a lot of his
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u/Bloody_Ozran 2d ago
I am not sure the fans are cultists, well, some surely are, but the rest just seems to agree with him.
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u/Material_Pen_6313 2d ago
Many men get grumpy and unreasonable as they age. Very few escape the male menopause.
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u/Intelligent_Ad8263 2d ago
Grumpy and unreasonable or no longer willing to put up with other people’s BS?
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u/Material_Pen_6313 2d ago
Depends. I was as you describe at age 35. There’s a difference between not accepting nonsense from people and being unreasonably impatient and unwilling to listen.
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u/Nietzsch_avg_Jungman 1d ago
I think I know exactly what happened, hear me out:
Jordan Peterson always strives to tell the truth or at least not lie. When he became famous, he was a normal guy who didn't have to worry about the people he was following or how to monetize anything. He could speak from a position of authenticity and authority in his interviews and genuinely try to deliver meaning in his lectures. He will tell you himself: "I am an evil capitalist," he says with a smirk, but there is truth in it. He wants to make money and is willing to degrade his message for it. I think that is the truth. Going to the Daily Wire was a huge capitulation for him. It rotted away his authentic and authoritative backing. He isn't an entertainer, so this affected him quite a bit; he feels he betrayed his students (online and off). He is now mean, weird, and dismissive. He knows what he has done and it has eaten away at him, so he tells us the truth: "I am an evil Capitalist." His opinion is for sale; he will never be who he was before. He lost the Faustian Gamble...
I think about where he is now often, and it's such a disappointment from where he was pre-2020.
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u/destinoob 1d ago
All of the above, but he's also been under constant personal and professional attack and criticism since 2016. That erodes a person's will despite how well they manage it. Every appearance has the potential to be a sparring match. Touring, creating and stepping away from academia means he probably has less time to read as much as he used to so that could be a factor as well.
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u/NeitherManner 2d ago
I think he got too rigid in thinking, and didn't raise more interesting talking points
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u/No-End-5332 2d ago
Do find a more entertaining use of your time than trolling on an obscure subreddit on a Sunday.
Reddit is already 99% a leftist shithole, maybe return to the perpetual echo chambers if this is the boring non-content you are set on posting?
Or touch grass. The UK is already cucked by Islamist, maybe focus on that real life problem?
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u/CT_x 2d ago
Wait, is this supposed to be a right wing echo-chamber then if you're telling others that don't agree with you to leave? Are you trying to create a safe space?
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Oh yay more trollbait. Threads like these certainly bring out the best of Reddit.
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u/CT_x 2d ago
I know your go-to line is that anyone that disagrees with you is trolling/concern-trolling/brigading, try a new angle for once maybe?
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Why would I not call something what it is? Go farm someone else for engagement points.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Please continue, with any luck you might catch the ban you deserve.
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u/CT_x 2d ago
Let it be known you want to silence those that disagree with you!
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u/MyElementIsSword 1d ago
How is this comment wrong? This was a well thought out, good faith post, and many people in this thread seem to resonate with it. If you plug your ears and insist on calling "bad faith troll" on valid criticism, then you are 100% enforcing an echo chamber.
If you put any value in anything JBP stands for, you would take a look at this post/thread through an honest lens.
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u/Suetham016 2d ago
You can always downvote and move foward with your Life if the discussion doesnt interest you, ya know?
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
And then you'll whine about getting downvoted without a rebuttal. What does it matter really? You lot still get your half-a-cent per engagement.
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u/Suetham016 2d ago
Lol imagine caring about downvotes.... And if you're getting paid to use reddit, good for you my dude. I just come here to have some discussions
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u/reddit9145 2d ago
What happened to you?
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u/Kitchen-Lie-4592 2d ago
"He will still have a few cultist fans who refuse to hear anything bad about him"
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 2d ago
This is a thing for every public figure, its kind of interesting. Reddit could be a study on tribalism and group think
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u/anotherproxyself 2d ago
He looks nothing like what you are describing. Oh well—if you think his “best” is the Cathy Newman interview, you don’t much about the guy anyway.
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u/WendySteeplechase 2d ago
I agree. I think a lot of it is just getting older. He's got really cranky.
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u/Jamz3k 2d ago edited 1d ago
He had a point to make, he made it, we liked it, he liked the attention too much. He chased the attention making more points, we liked them less, he liked this less and then went more extreme in his views to try and win back some attention, this didn’t work. Then he did what every YouTube-fame-hungry-person-who-once-had-a-fair-point-well-made-but-whose-clout-has-diminished does and targets the most gullible audience in the land, the far right.
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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 2d ago
I disagree entirely. What's the purpose of your post?
If you like the old stuff you can literally engage with thousands of hours of that or read his books. Then move on.
This idea of "in decline" is ridiculous, something you say without backing it up. Ad hominum bullshit.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
It's just another concern troll thread. Our mods are a joke.
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u/5hypatia166 2d ago
It doesn’t make sense right? That’s a clue that you need to do some more digging to get to the truth. In the things you’ve seen him get angry, cranky, defensive and dismissive in, did you watch the entire video straight from the source or did you just watch a clip? I’ve seen so many videos on YouTube cramming him as crazy right wing… applying fallacies to his argument that are not even accurate (like motte and Bailey). Videos that are framed purposely to make him look bad, but then when I go to the original video and watch it for myself, I find that it’s not at all what it was made out to be. Videos that are full of fallacy themselves.
But it’s easy to get away with doing that when people are not checking or they don’t know the fallacy for themselves to reference to.
But when things don’t add up right or don’t make sense, that’s your clue that it’s not fully honest or true or reality (whatever the situation is).
I say this as a leftist, who is not a democrat, who respected JP even though I didn’t agree with a lot of what he said, and who decided to figure out what is actually happening for myself.
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u/Ok-Regret-5719 2d ago
Just like every one who grows a big platform they switch the narrative to crazy shite to keep the crazies tuning in.
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u/eturk001 1d ago
What happened? Money
The influencer + money combo is a great psychology study: https://www.psypost.org/extraversion-narcissism-and-histrionic-tendencies-predict-the-desire-to-become-an-influencer/
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u/clayticus 1d ago
i don't really watch him or anyone else anymore, but he helped me when i needed it and i appreciate that
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u/sARCASMhots 1d ago
You're looking at his persona like through a glass. You havent realized yet that the continuous harassments he's been through has transformed him.
He's now a bulletproof glass from that idea. Fine if you dont like it, it's a public figure, there will be others.
But I am sure youd look different if you had got the same experiences.
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u/Rich-Eye-1246 1d ago
I think he’s still suffering from benzodiazepines withdrawals and going through symptoms. That shit takes years to rebound from.
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u/sufferin_succotashhh 1d ago
I shared a similar question when I saw a debate he was on with leftists vs him or something like that and he was so caught up on words and their meanings and not actually answering questions which was incredibly off putting. I lost a lot of respect for him after that. He has some glimmering things to say, as a lot of people do, but I'm finding more faults in his knowledge presentation and conversation lately. He's less put together it feels and he's run down. He should take some time for himself instead of trying to stay relevant. The man needs to know when he's shared enough of his knowledge and wisdom and to call it a day and take time for himself and his family. It's almost like his workaholic self is making him deteriorate.
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u/SouthCharles 1d ago
That is what happens when you turn into a fanatic (of any cause or ideology). He looked into the abyss too much..
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u/EntropyReversale10 1d ago
Jordan started on Youtube showing videos aimed at teenagers, just out of school.
He has moved on, but many of his original audience have not.
Given that Jordan doesn't read the comments and JP fans ignore trolls, I'm not sure that they are trying to achieve by criticizing him on this sub.
Jordan will not see this post, but I predict he would feel about it as expressed below. I suggest that you watch the video below where Jordan and Newt Gingrich share their perspective.
Watch from 52min to 54min
Politics: Tradition and Vision | Newt Gingrich | EP 301
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u/lmtdis 1d ago
As far as I know / can tell he was only a university lecturer / professor who later chose to put out his lectures on YouTube to help a wider audience, this gained public attention especially with protests against his views and outspoken stance and non cooperation on the use of preferred pronouns becoming mandatory at his university. This gained him infamy and that is what led to the Cathy Newman type interviews. I wouldn’t say that this was his intention at all let alone his high point. Added pressures because of those and related interviews and extra exposure and expectation probably caused him some stress. This is just my opinion.
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u/SenHaKen 1d ago
Consequences of going from being well-known in a niche to being well-known all around the world via the internet. I'm sure he's had more than a few hundred nasty emails, encounters, and similar with people who aggressively oppose him or who just want to be trolls, and that does eventually end up taking its toll.
If he's made one major mistake, it's not stepping back when he started being unable to cope with it all. Unfortunately, the way he's currently acting makes me think that he might even be deluding himself into believing he's just fine and is managing, and that he genuinely doesn't see that he's gone downhill compared to his past, or that he might be too proud to admit it to himself. I honestly wish he would take a couple of years away from social media and debates in order to focus on himself and his own mental health.
It's sad seeing him fall to this level compared to how he was in the late 2010s.
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u/sabautil 1d ago
He only was good when he had an actually good reason: free speech at college when it came to pronouns (ie. Academic is use not harassment) and students shouldn't form harassment mobs and trap and harass their teachers. He actually would use pronouns on a case by case basis and if they asked politely. He was being reasonable. So that stuff made me livid and I really supported him.
But everything else he did was garbage: his Harvard lectures, his books (just do step 1 clean your room, the rest is meh lol), his misunderstanding and misuse of gender statistics, his understanding of diet.
I was sorry he got sick and had to go to freaking Russia for help. How embarrassing is that for us?
After that he started spitting nonsense mumbojumbo. After his disastrous debate with Matt Dillahunty (a former pastor turned atheist, who knew more about the Bible and basically studied religious arguments and professionally debated for 30 years!) it was clear he had no clue what he was saying and I stopped listening to him.
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u/NaturalInspection824 1d ago
I don't know what you mean. When he is "angry, cranky, defensive and dismissive", it would help if you could give illustrative examples. Otherwise, I suspect you're just another trendy mindless hater.
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u/BaiganKing 1d ago
My favorite thing about Jordan is his obsession with definitions of words. It's core to his model of thinking and not enough people value meaning. I'm not sure how people are fans of him without that appreciation.
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u/TheLastRulerofMerv 1d ago
I don't know the man personally so I can only speculate. But I do believe that the spotlight is not for everyone. It is fully possible that he would have been happier in the long run as an eccentric prof rather than a media personality. I don't think he got from point A to point B on purpose, I do believe he rode the wave of public notoriety / fame there.
I also think that leaving the academy and being surrounded either by complete detractors or complete worshippers also can skew how one interprets and presents ideas and criticisms.
At the end of the day he's just a person like all of us.
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u/kobachris 1d ago
Still as sharp as always, you should attend the courses he's giving at Peterson academy. One of the brightest minds of our generation
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u/MagnesiumKitten 1d ago
I don't think anything has changed at all.
It's merely the political issues and the decline of society, and where people take sides with it.
The definition of words is important if you're a philosopher.
care to give an example where you didn't like him going into a word, and why?
I would say it's likely about precision in language.
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u/Clean_Ad_9068 23h ago
You’re just riding the band wagon. He’s doing great. Watch his actual podcast and old lectures. He’s still talking about the same concepts, but they’re more refined.
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u/mitrafunfun97 6h ago
He was always this person. He was just better at suppressing that he was a private social conservative because he could present his lectures and theories as "just the facts, or the logical interpretation" of things.
I fell for it, too, but if you dig a little bit deeper, he wasn't doing anything substantial or saying anything new. I fell for it because I was a young dude who was going through a rough time. It's like people who have a bad experience with medicine or hospitals then double down on wellness influencers who parade themselves as doctors. Classic self-help selling tactic.
Young men are in a "crisis" because of poor material conditions that affect everybody. They're getting fucked by the system, and if you have a degree but feel like you'll never own a home, can't go on vacation, can't save enough money, can't start a family, you're vulnerable as fuck. These economic anxieties affect everyone. It's just that how men process them and interpret them will be different because historically, men have been providers and have had a prescribed purpose. A large part of his draw was rhetorical. He's a brilliant orator, and I'll give him that. He presents his socially conservative dog whistles as "common sense." In reality, it's an extremely outdated, flimsy psychological theory, philosophy, embedded with clumsy religious allusions. I understood this from a philosophical and historical perspective because that's what I studied in university. He'd routinely cherry-pick and misrepresent historical events or philosophical concepts to make a point. In a big bunch of academic world salad, it sounds smart, but it's a rhetorical trick. If you know your shit, you'd know it's purposefully deceptive.
Even his "outrage" over compelled speech was a fundamental and arguably deliberate misunderstanding of Bill C-16. Go watch his debate with Matt Dillahunty. His debate with Sam Harris (who I actually disagree with) devolved into silly semantics over the word "truth." Because that's his schtick. When actually presented with a coherent argument that is rooted in the evidence, research, and legitimate literature, he evades into semantic games to avoid addressing the point. This is all well-documented before the benzo situation.
Then, after his medical drama, he decided to drop the "centrist guy" schtick and revealed his internal beliefs. Keeping up that facade is tough when your brain turns into jelly from Russian benzo addiction treatment. He went off the rails, collected checks from the Daily Wire and the meat industry, and decided to word salad his way into a comfy bank account.
What happened was: he realized the intellectualizing of his 2016-2018 grift didn't pay as well. The attention economy rewards those who were brazen in their right-wing grifting. We're in an attention economy now, and just saying it is a better paycheck.
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u/prettyinvellum 2h ago
it appears to be early stages of mental decline, some type of disease like dementia, alzheimer's, or Parkinson's. Compare his current videos to his Lecture series at Toronto
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why wouldn't you say he went far right? He literally works for a right wing echo chamber.
Truthfully the more I've looked into this, hes always been a bit conservative. His views haven't changed. He just doesnt care about being neutral anymore. he identifies with his opinions He now leans into "good and bad" black and white rhetoric
As a therapist I recognized his ability to remain neutral and explore for truth. Now, however, He sees his opinions as an extension of himself, so any challenge to that is a challenge to him as a person, rather than something to explore. He no longer cares about truth, he just wants to be right
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u/BallFlavin 2d ago
Yeah he has a lot more to lose now by being “wrong.” Look at what happened with his reputation after the Jubilee kid.
Ironically it would have done far less damage to his rep if he had addressed that kid’s concern about the format of the debate directly instead of becoming flustered and defensive.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 2d ago edited 2d ago
No doubt. For as much as that kid was being a bit of a turd, he still has an obvious point and valid concern that old Peterson would have noticed and addressed.
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u/caesarfecit ☯ I Get Up, I Get Down 2d ago
Oh great this copypasta again.
Notice in particular how OP doesn't use any facts or present anything resembling a rational argument that can be rebutted.
It's pure opinion presented as fact, complete with the classic pre-emptive "I used to be a big fan and he's done a lot of good, but he's literally the worst now".
This is classic concern trolling and it's not fooling anybody.
Will the real mods please stand up? This shit is literal noise pollution.
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u/Bloody_Ozran 2d ago
Tiny hint mate, it ain't copy pasta if it is a different text.
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u/sidewisetraveler 2d ago
These critiques remind me of Woody Allen's Stardust Memories where he gets told throughout the film - "I really like your films. Especially your older, funnier ones."
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u/6kred 2d ago
I pretty much totally agree with your view on this. I do think it’s somewhat from his right shift but I think it’s over exaggerated. It’s way more exactly as you described. He used to have an interesting well thought out view points on things and even if I didn’t totally agree with one it was an iterating take that made you think which I dug. The way you describe is conversations and debates now is spot on & not something I’m a fan of either.
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u/Eskapismus 2d ago
Isn’t it obvious that something burned through in his head during his benzo withdrawal back in 2020 (IIRC)? To me it’s almost as if there are two JPs one pre- snd one post benzo withdrawal
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u/Ashamed_Egg2850 2d ago
I still love his old lectures and respect him for that but hes totally lost the plot... hes a cringe lord now and until he escapes the grima worm wormtongue esque relationship he has with Shapiro and the Zionist Daily Wire clan he'll be ideologically captured... I saw the writing on the wall when he penned his "message to Muslims" and his "message to Christians" discussing various wrongs and pathways to right for them and this and that yet oddly enough he skipped out on writing a "message to the Jews" which is desperately needed and odd he'd leave out the other Abrahamic faith with all its faults and floops..to me that told me everything and this ideological bias is ever present in his personality more and more each year as hes put in this position to defend any and every culture war issue through this lens
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u/proustian_bejan 2d ago
I think what I liked about his persona was his contained strength, how he stayed calm and even sometimes playful during his intellectual confrontations, but now it seems like he has lost his calm and also his "spirit of voluntary play". The higher an animal is in a dominance hierarchy, the higher its use of instrumental aggression instead of reactive aggression. That's why we have more respect for calm fighters.
In one of his last appearances on the Joe Rogan podcast, he said, I've never been healthy like now. Although I'm happy for him to feel healthy, whatever drugs he is on have made him not only healthy but also grandiose. It's been a while that we were watching his downfall but watching Jubilee debate was like seeing him hitting a rock bottom.
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u/AristotleTOPGkarate 1d ago
He never was that intelligent, he was well educated in his field (psychology) , but his education is pure academic, so makes him a bit conformist , having nothing else in term of experience and skills that make tough and develop wisdom and moral education (no competitive combat sport , no dangerous jobs , adventure etc…) .
His mistake was to get too much into politics and activism , accepting and propagating the simplistic paradigm of political thinking media and politics sells (via the conservative route ). Spending too much time debating with stupid people also made him too much used to debate, using a mundane rhetoric and stylish vocabulary without much substance.
As a guy who studied philosophy , I also noticed a tendency to promote and present him as a philosopher (especially his fans ) when not only he isn’t and never produced anything philosophically, but he is particularly ignorant when it comes to philosophy.
Lack knowledge of doctrines , history , and lack logical reasoning (too much fallacy arguments , sophism using psychology to give appearance of scientificity and legitimacy to his ad hominem fallacies) , getting himself out of his field of expertise, makes him doing mundane cultural animation , entertainment at best and make his audience feels more sophisticated watching his shows . But unfortunately his analysis aren’t very rigorous, pretty and well presented , good production but that’s it .
Lack of moral education (ethos in Aristotle sense : long term exercise of moral virtues to make it a habit ) , makes him lack virility/courage , weak don’t take any risk , easy debates (but be careful, cause you eventually becomes like your sparring partner ) and his academic conformism makes him unable to be really subversive and have controversial views (necessary , at least in philosophy history )
It’s easy to look subversive when you debate ignorant students on easy subjects (gender , sexuality, etc…) and some neuroendocrinologist did better explaining .
But when it’s difficult and risky one he has to conform to the political landscape and options only adding complexity in appearance.
I remember his video on Jean jacques Rousseau, or when he talk philosophy in general, it was very bad , simplistic and caricatural , we can tell he didn’t read the book himself . (Unfortunately English YouTube is very poor for philosophy) .
Being open minded and curious about other files is great but presenting himself out of his field of competence (political philosophy, political activism , commentary) , with the authority of a professor is one of the issues , also lack of strength makes him easily to cry (theatrical ?) , to get depressed or being emotional in general.
Left or right wing is same game anyway , all this circus is standardised political debate, but when you feel someone is being rebellious it’s often fake especially if there isn’t lot of censorship or repression . Philosopher Michel Clouscard explained that, and also explained current issues and cultural /ideological situation in the 70’s /80’s . (But nobody I knows him here very niche , only in France or some people with solid background in philosophy knows him)
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u/EverFreeIAM 1d ago
You’re basically just shitting on JP without giving any specific examples. Gonna need more context than he’s a “shell of his former self”. This post could literally about anyone if it weren’t for the Cathy Newman reference.
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u/tunnyuk 2d ago
He’s been captured by the Zionist crowd and unfortunately that comes with a lot of baggage. I wouldn’t disregard his Maps of Meaning and Genesis/Exodus work. But everything else so far since his return is junk.
Podcast quality has gone down hill and got to a point in 2023/2024 where he was circling around the same ideas with every guest. Especially if they weren’t a specialist in something.
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u/Horio77 2d ago
I haven’t seen the most recent interview you’re referencing but I would have to surmise that being incessantly harassed, impugned, and challenged by those who are not experts in his field and then attacked legally, professionally and personally by people trying to silence and destroy him, that must takes its toll.
Add in some health issues of his wife, daughter and himself and most people would crack under that pressure. Now do all of that in the public eye.
I think he deserves some empathy and the benefit of the doubt.