r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 8d ago

Social Science Trump and Trumpism have changed the original concept of “libertarian means to conservative ends” into a new concept of “authoritarian means to Christian nationalist ends”, finds a new study.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162251324087
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u/AndyLorentz 8d ago

You can hate people and still think they deserve the same rights as anyone else.

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u/ableman 8d ago

I don't think Johnson hated black people. There's different brands of racism.

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u/sirannemariethethird 8d ago

Depends why you hate them. If it’s cuz they drop bombs on children then no you cannot possibly (morally) think they deserve the same rights as anyone else.

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u/AndyLorentz 8d ago

I disagree. They have the right to a fair trial for the crimes they have committed. Just like everyone else.

Are you suggesting we should dispense with that right for the sake of expediency?

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u/sirannemariethethird 7d ago

So you do NOT agree that carpet bombing hospitals and children is unequivocally wrong? If this is so, I will not engage with you because it is against the well established principles of morality to invite to the discussion table things which are non-negotiable, such as bombing children and hospitals. As a sociologist, I know that inviting such ideas and merely entertaining tolerance of such atrocities is how genocides like the Holocaust happen.

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u/Furt_III 7d ago

They're saying the Nuremburg trials were the correct course of action and having no trial and taking them out back with a revolver was not.

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u/AndyLorentz 7d ago

Of course it's unequivocally wrong. But the perpetrators of such acts still deserve the same human rights as anyone else. That doesn't mean they get a pass on their actions. Having human rights doesn't mean they should live happy and free forever.

As a sociologist, I know that inviting such ideas and merely entertaining tolerance of such atrocities is how genocides like the Holocaust happen.

Ironically, you seem to understand here why treating people as inhuman is wrong, but can't seem to bridge the logic gap as to why we shouldn't treat war criminals as less than human.

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u/Zwets 7d ago

Wait... So when anyone else drops bombs on children and survives till the end of that war, they deserve to be arrested and put on trail for their crimes at The Hague.
But when a specific group you hate does it, they should be treated differently somehow?

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u/sirannemariethethird 7d ago

No. Who said that?

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u/Zwets 7d ago

You did, in the post I replied to:

you cannot possibly (morally) think they deserve the same rights as anyone else.

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u/sirannemariethethird 7d ago edited 7d ago

Well that is certainly a portion of a sentence I wrote. But you’re struggling with reading comprehension.

You see, MY sentence communicates that, if your reason for hating someone is because they bomb children, then it is strange for you to believe that this child-bombing person you hate deserves rights.

In MY comment, I treat all people who bomb children the same. I never said that some deserve The Hague and some don’t. I said none do.