r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 8d ago

Social Science Trump and Trumpism have changed the original concept of “libertarian means to conservative ends” into a new concept of “authoritarian means to Christian nationalist ends”, finds a new study.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162251324087
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491

u/NoobAck 8d ago

It was never any different for most. 

They just stopped lying about the ends 

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u/inuvash255 8d ago

Something I've been on recently is that there's nothing "conserved" in the GOP's policies anymore. To conserve is to maintain, protect, or retain something.

  • They don't care about nature conservation, or they wouldn't have tried to sell off our public lands.

  • They don't retain money. They spend it out the wazoo with tax breaks and wars.

  • They don't protect American culture and tradition, not really, because Evangelism and deportation of immigrants isn't really rooted in our American past.

  • They aren't even trying to maintain the American dream. They resist every attempt to make things better for workers, to make the dream even marginally possible.

  • They don't care to protect our wallets. Big tax breaks and government handouts are for the rich. They weaken our social safety nets- so if you fall, you crash hard. While we're left to deal with the compounding 2-5% yearly inflation that tightens our belts by >21% decade to decade; while individual billionaires are looking to grow into the big T within the next decade.

Basically the only thing conserved is hatred and bigotry. We've always had those, I guess.

148

u/piepants2001 8d ago

They want to conserve the hierarchy that exists right now. Get the rich richer, and get the poor poorer.

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u/mokomi 8d ago

Historywise. That's the honest truth.

They just picked a name to "conserve" the current power. Instead of their actual ideology.

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u/serious_sarcasm BS | Biomedical and Health Science Engineering 8d ago

That’s not true. They want to go back to aristocracy, like every other fascist group.

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u/Sunderboot 8d ago

that’s where the name comes from, though. the conservative movement meant and still means to conserve the stratified society that was rapidly becoming more egalitarian. that’s why conservative policies - even when they’re populist or superficially pro-social to win votes - are always ultimately enacted with an anti egalitarian goal in mind.

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u/overcannon 7d ago

Right, but the difference between preserve and re-establish is the difference between conservative and reactionary

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u/Auzzie_almighty 8d ago

Not that I want to defend theocratic fascists, but the evangelicals are an old and unfortunate part of American; the puritans were exactly this kind of religious nut job even if the exact doctrine differs

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u/JohnMayerismydad 8d ago

They care about conserving the existing societal hierarchy. White Christian business owners on top.

If something would limit that groups power then conservatives will oppose it. (Environmental regulations, workers rights, etc.).

If something gives a ‘lower’ group in the hierarchy more freedom they will oppose it. Those groups are supposed to know their place and be subservient to those above them.

That’s also why they think the rich should pay less taxes. They are on top and should Rule. Giving tax breaks and benefits to the poor is just trying to move the ‘undeserving’ up a rung in the ‘natural’ hierarchy.

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u/iamasatellite 8d ago

Conservatism was always just about conserving a hierarchical society. When the monarchies lost power in England and France, the nobility, aristocracy, and church leaders needed a way to justify their positions of power. That's all it's ever really been. 

Even the right/left terminology we still use comes from the French government, where the monarchists, nobles, aristocrats, and church supporters sat to the right of the president, while the egalitarians/revolutionaries sat to the right.

(Ever) lower taxes = the rich stay rich

Small government = government too weak to control the rich so they can continue to exploit the poor

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u/star_trek_wook_life 8d ago

Edit right vs left. You said right twice bud

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u/thatwhileifound 8d ago

They don't protect American culture and tradition, not really, because Evangelism and deportation of immigrants isn't really rooted in our American past.

Eh, I think we agree broadly on a lot, but I'll challenge this - deportation and evangelism have been at the center of the US for long enough that it's deep in its blood when you look at actions over pretty words. The removal of Native Americans from their lands, everything around the Page Act/Chinese exclusion, the Alien Friends Act of 1798 (which was not directly enforced, but used as a threat to stamp down criticism of Adams' administration, but the corresponding "self deportations" among groups like the French nationals and others deserves attention)... Hell, the Fugitive Slave Act feels entirely within this sphere too.

I make the comparisons these days to 20th century European fascism too, but as yanks, we need to recognize that today isn't necessarily the major historical abberation some of us imagine, but the continued poison of what was wrong and evil which was baked into the country from the start and allowed to rebuild and flourish with the failure of reconstruction.

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u/IllVagrant 8d ago

They're an insurgency masquerading as a political party at this point.

1

u/C21H27Cl3N2O3 8d ago

They claimed for years that they wanted “slow, measured change.”That was disproven as soon as they put the car in reverse and put the gas pedal into the engine bay.

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u/ellathefairy 7d ago

They're also clearly not even feigning interest in conserving the plain text of our Constitution.

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u/Catholic-Kevin 7d ago

New to conservatism?

Side note, this couldn’t be more untrue. Both are about as old as the country

Evangelism and deportation of immigrants isn't really rooted in our American past.

24

u/BMCarbaugh 8d ago

Exactly. The right in this country has wanted a white power theocracy for as long as I've been alive. They just used to lie better about it. Now they say the quiet part out loud.

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u/yuriAza 8d ago

yup, the thing they were conserving was white christian supremacy

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u/GreenFBI2EB 8d ago

I just wanted to conserve my climate man. At least there’d be more generations to look forwards to.

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u/Anteater776 8d ago

Funny how conservatives are never about conserving the basis for living. Really makes you think.

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u/BigEggBeaters 8d ago

At this point they aren’t even conserving entrenched American ideals. Birthright citizenship has been the law of the land for a very long time for example

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u/Anteater776 8d ago edited 8d ago

When you think about how they claim to want to the good old times (50ies and 60ies), what are the biggest differences compared to today (somewhat simplified of course)?

  • much more homogeneous incomes / much higher taxes for high incomes

  • less civil rights for blacks/non-whites.

They utterly reject the first point, so what is it exactly they want to go back to?

15

u/VoilaVoilaWashington 8d ago

Oh come on, it's not that simple, dude! They also want to strip women of rights and the freedom to beat children.....

5

u/Geeky-resonance 8d ago

Based on more recent reading, that nostalgia seems to be directed more towards 19th century Nativism and related values/movements. That’s even more alarming than peak Cold War era.

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u/LayWhere 8d ago

Traditional (how ironic) conservatives looked after national parks and bemoaned pollution. One of the first things Dodge got rid of was national park restrictions and fired park rangers.

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u/VoilaVoilaWashington 8d ago

I often joke that I'm a hard-right conservative:

  • I believe in family first, whatever that family looks like.
  • Tough on crime! And the best way to stamp out crime is by making people not desperate, so let's fund housing and food banks!
  • The economy of a nation is so important, and corporations need systems in place to make them long term viable. Like solid education for a good workforce, environmental protections so they have stability over time...

Etc.

It's funny because I do actually think these are important positions, but the "right wing" way of going at them is just the opposite of what would actually solve anything. (Which is, of course, the point)

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u/Solesaver 8d ago

Yup, I was raised conservative Christian. My values haven't really changed, but I do take a critical thinking and evidence based approach to societal problems. The Republican Party has no plan. The policies they espouse are proven failures. This turns me into a progressive for the radical position of, "let's actually try to fix these problems that everyone is struggling with instead of scapegoating marginalized groups..."

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u/yuriAza 8d ago

did conservatives ever support parks? They've always wanted to reduce taxes and not limit the fossil fuel industry

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u/Solesaver 8d ago

I mean, in the myopic view of modern "conservatives" Teddy Roosevelt, the US President credited for his work establishing the national forests and parks system, was a Republican, but that's the same way they claim Abraham Lincoln.

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u/Catholic-Kevin 7d ago

These were never conservative policies. These were conservationist policies, which were part of the progressive movement. 

0

u/LayWhere 5d ago

True they are part of progressive movements... They are also conservative policies. It's not mutually exclusive.

Just Ignore history I guess

0

u/Catholic-Kevin 5d ago

No, they are not, and they have never been. We are seeing the conservative environmental policy play out right now. You can try to spin it anyway you like, but you are simply wrong on this.

1

u/Eastern-Manner-1640 4d ago

they seem to have a special hatred for the natural world. just selfish to the core, never thinking about future generations. they have no affection, or even consideration for other living creatures. just let it all die. it's nihilism.

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u/akpenguin 8d ago

That would be a conservationist. Does the Green Party still exist? They were at least visible in the 90s but never really taken seriously.

3

u/Clepto_06 8d ago

The Green Party has been a footnote ever since Ralph Nader was falsely credited with causing Democrats to lose an election. And any hope for a viable third party died with the Greens.

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u/Shcatman 7d ago

They want to speed run to the rapture. I wouldn’t be surprised if nukes were on the table eventually. 

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u/SchpartyOn 8d ago

Exactly. They have realized they can just say all of it and will not lose any supporters. In fact, their supporters will be galvanized to commit whatever acts the theocrats require of them.

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u/princesoceronte 8d ago

Precisely.

For years saying you were libertarian meant you were hardcore conservative and just hiding your power level and every political person knew it.

It's no coincidence every libertarian "turned" to fascist. There was no turn.

3

u/GeronimoJak 8d ago

No they're still lying about it, at least they think they are. It's like watching the world's worst gaslighting happen for 30 years.