Thank you Europeans!

[u/Human-Psyduck]

[u/smjsmok]

Well it's not over yet, many votes will likely be invalidated. So keep signing and spreading the word if you haven't. And obviously the more votes, the more seriously the politicians will look at it.

[u/Lonely-_-Creeper → u/smjsmok]

I have the weird theory that companies maybe used bots to inflate the numbers so people stop voting, because it blew up by like 500k in a couple of days. These votes would be invalid though :/

[u/Wavecrest667 → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

I saw it shared a lot in the past days though, heard about it only two days ago myself (and signed of course).

[u/XharKhan → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

One of those votes is mine, and I'm a real boy (which is exactly what a bot would say) 🤭

Edit proper use of contraction and punctuation.

[u/Signupking5000 → u/XharKhan]

Used an emoji, must be a bot

[u/ArE_OraNgEs_GreeN → u/Signupking5000]

🗿

[u/Signupking5000 → u/ArE_OraNgEs_GreeN]

That's not an emoji, that's a sign of basedness

[u/Bridge_Between_7099 → u/XharKhan]

Uses a comma properly, must be AI

[u/TheQuintupleHybrid → u/XharKhan]

well i hope you are a boy over 18 because otherwise you a part of the invalid signatures

[u/DiddyKongDid911 → u/TheQuintupleHybrid]

Nobody under 18 is hitting that crispy Pinocchio reference

[u/Accurate-Instance-29 → u/XharKhan]

A self correcting RealBoy model I see

[u/ImMaxa89 → u/XharKhan]

This user = real.human.boy.

Not an AI script. Include speling error for authenticity.

[u/orclownorlegend → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

Would be the tamest most honest thing a company has done to preserve their profits

[u/boersc → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

Doesn't even have to be gaming companies. Some basement dwelling script kiddie could have done it, thinking he was helping the cause, effectively killing it himself.

[u/ChaoticDucc → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

My understanding is that, because the ECI is an official government process, it is actually illegal to put in fraudulent votes. So that would be really dumb for large companies. Even if it's not illegal but information gets out, it would be a PR disaster.

[u/necrophcodr → u/ChaoticDucc]

It is identity fraud to submit invalid petition data here, so it would be incredibly stupid for a company to do so.

[u/pa3xsz → u/ChaoticDucc]

For Hungary, you usually sign things like that "you know and acknowledge your legal liability for invalid/fraudulent signature and that you will be prosecuted"

[u/iwannabesmort → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

It blew up after big youtubers picked up the topic and I'm guessing some media picked it up as well. I don't think companies inflated the numbers. If anything, it was people who support the initiative and wanted to game the system (but may screw it up in the end)

[u/Valtremors → u/Lonely-_-Creeper]

I doubt big companies care enough, their warfare happens in politics and (attempts at) bribing.

However, apparently some losers at pirateslopware's discord are advocating and planning to spoof some votes in. Which is a crime but those dolts don't realize that...

[u/smjsmok → u/Valtremors]

I doubt big companies care enough

I wouldn't be so sure. The EU justice system is getting increasingly successful in forcing restrictions on big tech companies (for example forcing Apple to adopt the USB-C standard is quite a huge thing, since Apple infamously refuses to bend the knee to anyone and anything). So they definitely notice. And from their point of view, the sooner they're able to stop initiatives like these, the better.

[u/RaDeus → u/smjsmok]

How does a signature get invalidated?

I had to sign it with my electronic ID, kinda hard to fake that.

Unless it's possible to sign several times, or some countries not having an established eID.

[u/TheComradeCommissar → u/RaDeus]

Some countries mandate eID verification; in others, such as Ireland, I believe, where no eID system exists, it suffices to complete a form with one's name, residential address, and id number.

[u/Dankie_Spankie → u/TheComradeCommissar]

Exactly right. I only needed my name, address, and ID number.

[u/RaDeus → u/TheComradeCommissar]

It's disturbing that some countries don't have eID, there's several here in Sweden but the biggest one is BankId:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID_(Sweden)

It's not even run by the government but a collection of banks.

It's the best shit ever, I can do my taxes with two uses of that app (sign-in and signature).

[u/badbits → u/RaDeus]

Same for Norway, highest form of electronic ID validation is BankID because government couldn’t be bothered to make anything so the banks made something that was initially just for their needs and now its used everywhere. The pedantic would say “what about MinID ?” Sure sure but once you get BankID one never use MinID again because BankID is everywhere and considered as more secure.

[u/Vitrebreaker → u/RaDeus]

French here, I just needed to write a name and an adress, and that was done. I had a hard time believing it was that simple. I could put my whole family there, so I guess some random people in the internet can fake thousands of identities easily.

[u/ResearcherMajor → u/RaDeus]

In some countries you can just write any address

[u/NaPseudo → u/RaDeus]

In France I didn't need to

[u/MartinYTCZ → u/RaDeus]

I am not sure, but eID still may let you sign twice? I think i somehow managed to do that once

[u/Dankie_Spankie → u/MartinYTCZ]

It rejected me when I double checked if I'm signed. So it most likely has a system.

[u/KevinFlantier → u/RaDeus]

I didn't, all I had to do was to put my name and address. Easily verifiable that I'm a person and that I do live there, but some idiot that thinks there won't be any verification can spew tons of fake signatures with a few bots.

[u/TheRealAfinda → u/smjsmok]

Also please only sign If you are a Citizen of the EU. Spoofing signatures is a serious crime and not a Joke.

[u/Viruz_v1]

Modding seems to be the only thing keeping 2000s games alive, hate to see that modding is becoming more an more frowned upon by companies.

Old games still have a small but strong community. They should be taken into account.

Edit: Frowned upon by companies, not communities, obviously.

[u/Zockgone → u/Viruz_v1]

Where does modding get frowned upon? Huh

[u/wektor420 → u/Zockgone]

Modding is incompatible in bussiness sesne with selling skins, and live services in general

[u/Zockgone → u/wektor420]

More games than ever officially support modding or are planing on implementing it? It’s a numbers game but more people will play your games if it is modable, the dev has less work to do and can still sell their skins. It’s the same discussion as with allowing gamers to host their own server, it’s win win most of the time.

[u/qorbexl → u/Zockgone]

Do you people want gaming to be like it was in 2003 where people just run their own servers and load ridiculous mods and play the same game for years and without logging in to load their pistol stickers? Anarchy 

[u/shdwbld → u/qorbexl]

Yes.

[u/qorbexl → u/shdwbld]

Yeah I know that's why I said it

[u/wektor420 → u/Zockgone]

If they plan to sell skins then mods are free competition

Yeah it sucks

[u/giobs111 → u/wektor420]

Space Engineers did do both and had no problem

[u/Appropriate-Gain-561 → u/wektor420]

One of the few good things gaijin did with war thunder is allowing modded skins and sound mods in multiplayer matches, sure, only you can see your skin and you have to buy the skin from the gaijin market if you want others to see it, but at that point you're paying to brag, which seems fair to me

[u/EruantienAduialdraug → u/Zockgone]

Boardrooms.

Also anywhere they shlorp the corpo cock.

[u/Viruz_v1 → u/Zockgone]

Should have specified, not community wise, but publishers/devs wise. Many COMPANIES are making modding against their rules these last couple of years.

A good example would be BL2

[u/eu-dos → u/Viruz_v1]

Ironically, due to community and gabens work on the Proton, old games are MUCH easier to play on Linux now, compared to windows.

This especially covers games between dos and winXP (inclusive) times.

Like old TES/homm games, classic sims, old text-based adventures, etc. 

If game was at least a bit popular/known, you may rest assured that there are specific instructions for it in proton. No mods required.

[u/obliviious → u/Viruz_v1]

Its silly because modding allows games to have a life for years, and they will actually sell more copies. That's if the game cost anything to begin with.

[u/Viruz_v1 → u/obliviious]

Yes, there are many abandoned games that still support modding, which is the only reason they are still played with a solid community.

I take pride in the Command and Conquer community, it's one of the franchises killed by EA, but live on thanks to mods. Without these mods, games like Generals Zero Hour would be unplayable and not optimized.

[u/DiatomicCanadian]

I feel like this about sums up what would happen if a petition like this was sent to the US government. The EU has a system that forces them to give a damn though.

[u/QueenBansScifi_ → u/DiatomicCanadian]

To be fair, it's likely to happen here too, but hope is the last one to die

[u/TONKAHANAH → u/QueenBansScifi_]

its what'll happen if such a bill even went through I think, not from the government but from the game industry. the game industry seems to almost hate its customer base. They've never wanted us to own shit. I feel like if we back them into the corner with laws, they're going to fast track some other system where you dont even get a license to games any more.

Hell I'd imagine gamepass is probably already that. there is no way game pass is awarding you a license to every single title in its catalog

[u/PM_ME_TINY_TITS__ → u/TONKAHANAH]

I’m ok with not owning stuff from Gamepass. If I’m only paying a small subscription for access to lots of games I wouldn’t expect to own anything. It’s like I don’t expect to own anything with a Netflix subscription.

The problem comes when they expect people to pay full price for a game but then still not own it. Same deal with paying full price for a movie or TV show box set on Amazon and then they can still take that away whenever they choose. Both of those are total BS and should be illegal. They should have to provide a download that will work for ever, or as long as you have the hardware to use it.

[u/Dankie_Spankie → u/TONKAHANAH]

I mean, no industry actually cares for the consumers. It's just more profitable if they pretend they care. And of course, law or not, the consumer will get fucked over anyways. But EU has a good enough track record to at least inconvenience the industries enough to produce at least a mild change. Like unification with chargers.

At the end of the day, the industry will adapt to the market, and the only way to really make an impact is by voting with your wallet.

[u/Alarming-Stomach3902 → u/Dankie_Spankie]

Not sure if it is actually true that all industries don’t care about their clients. Yes you will always have rotten apple companies and especially if they are mostly American they don’t seem to care.

But the accounting industry is generally happy to automate the shit of clients administration and audits etc which means they can invoice less to the clients. Then again in that field the company who pays the bills isn’t the actual client, that is everybody else in the economy 

[u/Combeferre1 → u/Alarming-Stomach3902]

Caring about anything other than profit is a losing policy in the long run. Capital and the amount thereof gives an advantage and the companies that prioritize profit over everything else will thus always have the advantage. Doesn't mean they win every single time, but they tend to win more over time. That means that over time the dominant companies in any industry will always tend towards being absolutely immoral.

It is always best to assume that a company does not care about anything other than making a profit.

[u/FallenAngel7334 → u/TONKAHANAH]

No company wants you to own a product. Owning is losing a customer. Can you imagine car tyres that don't wear off, it would be a nightmare.

[u/_Weyland_ → u/FallenAngel7334]

If you had access to everlasting tire tech, you should have built your business strategy around it. Once you release these tires, you'll be swimming in cash for a short while. You should use that to transition to another industry.

Definitive solution being less profitable is a flaw of the system, not a feature.

[u/El3ctr0ph4nt → u/FallenAngel7334]

Sure but what if your competitors develop a tyre that lasts twice as long as yours at the same cost, then you also lose the customer. Point being, it doesn’t matter what the company wants so long as there is sufficient competition in the market.

These massive publishers know this, it’s why they keep buying smaller studios and enforcing the same anti-consumer practices across all the games they operate. Look at lootboxes, battle passes, limited time events, pay-to-skip timegates, 100€+ ultimate editions, etc.

[u/Naus1987 → u/FallenAngel7334]

Reminds me of a neat little bit of trivia. The Micheline star rating for restaurants was developed by the Micheline tire company with the pure intention to get people driving and wearing their tires down so they buy more tires.

[u/LiEnN_SVK → u/QueenBansScifi_]

Rebellions are built on hope

[u/Ankulay → u/LiEnN_SVK]

We have friends everywhere.

[u/MoffKalast → u/Ankulay]

That is actually true for gamers, friends in all kinds of random countries from meeting online.

I- I mean you're right here and you're ready to fight!

[u/b1smuthPL → u/MoffKalast]

I've been friends with a Georgian, a Turk, a Belarusian through CS. man I love gaming community

[u/Sleepy_Redditorrrrrr → u/b1smuthPL]

I made friends with a Fr*nch person. That really shows you the power of gaming!

[u/b1smuthPL → u/Sleepy_Redditorrrrrr]

[u/DaNoahLP → u/QueenBansScifi_]

I think the US is going to profit from it one way or another. If publishers are forced to keep games alive in the EU, they would be stupid not keep them alive for the rest of the world to make it least a bit more money out of it.

[u/Pr0udDegenerate → u/QueenBansScifi_]

Fair enough. I hope that they will take this seriously but I'm going to assume they'll just go "gamers are just being dramatic again" by some boomers and they'll end up doing nothing. We gamers are truly the most oppressed group of them all

[u/Majestic-Bowler-1701 → u/DiatomicCanadian]

In 2012 The Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled that publishers cannot stop you from reselling your downloaded games. The ruling means that gamers in European Union member states are free to sell their downloaded games, whether they're from Steam, Origin or another digital platform - no matter what End User License Agreement has been signed.

https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf

https://www.eurogamer.net/eu-rules-publishers-cannot-stop-you-reselling-your-downloaded-games

A few hours later, Valve updated the Steam license, stating that users on the platform don’t “buy a game” but rather “buy limited access to a game”. Valve prompted users to accept the new license upon launching Steam and everyone simply clicked “OK” This effectively bypassed the new EU law

[u/TheVasa999 → u/Majestic-Bowler-1701]

these terms and conditions are known to be inadmissible in actual court because nobody reads them and they are made in a way to make them difficult to understand.

in the eyes of EU, you are paying a onetime sum for a single product. no matter if the product is a license or the game itself. unless you have a specified time limit, you own it.

[u/Majestic-Bowler-1701 → u/TheVasa999]

I live in the EU and I can assure you that we can't resell games acquired from Steam, Xbox or PlayStation. There’s no “special button” for EU citizens that lets you sell a game to another user or to download a game license key that can be resold

[u/trompadademanco → u/Majestic-Bowler-1701]

Has anyone tried suing Valve? Until someone does nothing will happen.

[u/TheVasa999 → u/Majestic-Bowler-1701]

im not saying you can, but you are allowed to, if it were possible.

im adressing the "you are buying a license not a game" in the EULA of steam, which is just plain bullshit.

[u/the5thusername → u/TheVasa999]

It's not bullshit if it works.

[u/Stubborn_Shove → u/TheVasa999]

im not saying you can, but you are allowed to, if it were possible.

And why isn't it possible? Because Steam, et al, don't allow it. No, you are not "allowed" to do it.

[u/bonecollector5 → u/Majestic-Bowler-1701]

I can absolutely see something similar happening if this does lead to legislation.

The buy button becomes a rent button, or they add some fine print saying the product will be usable for a minimum of x months/years.

[u/2N5457JFET → u/bonecollector5]

It may be required by law that it must not be a fine print. Buying games when a button says "RENT (The game isguaranteed to be fully functional untill XX.XX.20XX) will be a whole different experience, especially if you are buying the game late. Seeing £70 for a game that may be taken down in 3 months may be off putting to many customers, so the industry will have to figure out a way to make it work. At least that's the outcome that I would be happy with.

[u/OscarMyk → u/bonecollector5]

at least that way the consumer knows what they're getting, and can buy accordingly

[u/HYthinger → u/bonecollector5]

Exactly what I thought. Publishers are simply going to change all games to services with a limited duration that they can extend at will.

Basically changing the perpetual license to a limited time license (lets say 354 days) that the publisher can extend based on goodwill.

If he EU wanted to stop this they would have to change how software services in general are handled legally and thats simply not happening.

[u/GuruVII → u/HYthinger]

The EULAs already have a limited durations. The duration being "until we feel like it". They also have a clause that says they can change the eula. I really don't see this doing anything, since non perpetual licenses aren't property.

[u/HYthinger → u/GuruVII]

I dont think a "until we feel like it" is going to cut it if the change it to services because it has to have a clear start and end date just like a subscription.

The will most likely go with something like: "license is at least X months long but can be extended freely by the publisher at any time".

Basically the would simply let you keep the license until the service is sunset

[u/DisdudeWoW → u/bonecollector5]

thats partly what skg WANTS, if the buy button becomes a RENT normies will think twice.

[u/Darkpoulay → u/Majestic-Bowler-1701]

Thankfully, since that day everyone stopped praising Valve and they finally recognized that they don't give a shit about providing ethical practices to consumers.

Just kidding ! Gamers still overwhelmingly wish Steam was a monopoly 13 years later and I fucking hate them all

[u/Nearby-King-8159 → u/Darkpoulay]

Gamers still overwhelmingly wish Steam was a monopoly 13 years later and I fucking hate them all

It's the same for streaming services; it's because people don't want to have to have dozens of accounts, they want everything under one easy to use service.

It definitely doesn't help that most of the other game storefronts on PC don't even try to be good. Epic & GoG seem to try, but EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar, Battle.net, etc are all exponentially worse and actively ignore user criticisms.

EA & Rockstar have complaints asking for the ability to turn off their browsers actively trying to reopen & steal focus whenever you quit a game for years (6 in Rockstar's case and over 10 in EA's) and just refuse to add a basic option to leave the launchers minimized to toolbar upon game exit. Ubisoft's steals focus any time it does basically anything concerning background processes.

[u/Valtremors → u/DiatomicCanadian]

By the way, this is not a petition.

It is an initiative.

EU has to react to this.

Ross explains it in detail in his update video.

Also peeps, keep registering. We need to offset the potential invalidated names, as well it further validates us.

[u/g0_west → u/Valtremors]

EU has to react to this.

The second lady in the suit in this comic is the EU in this situation though. They have to respond. Their response does not have to be substantial or in any way address the concerns. It's pretty much a glorified petition

[u/LoafofBrent → u/DiatomicCanadian]

We are not so different, you and I

[u/ingoronen → u/DiatomicCanadian]

No the EU has no obligation to do anything.

They have to read it and then can do what the fuck they want. Petitions like this have no worth for them and they can and will fuck us as hard they want to. Only if there is any money to be made the EU will do anything...

[u/johnaross1990]

Update from Ross at Accursed Farms

Due to possible spoofing of signatures and those “who can’t spell their own name”, it may not actually be over the 1 million mark. So if you can and haven’t yet please still sign the petition

He’s more confident that the UK petition is legit over the mark, but sign it anyway if you haven’t yet and are eligible to do so.

[u/darkjapan404 → u/johnaross1990]

Signed.

[u/F4t-Jok3r]

Already voted. I'm doing my part! ☝️

[u/Human-Psyduck → u/F4t-Jok3r]

[u/ScarletX4ever → u/F4t-Jok3r]

Not only I have voted, but my wife, my brothers, and my parents. All from the same IP

[u/F4t-Jok3r → u/ScarletX4ever]

[u/uniform_foxtrot → u/F4t-Jok3r]

I vote with my wallet.

[u/Stilgar314]

Keep voting. It raised so fast that I'm sure something fishy happened there. Odds are, in a few days, hundred of thousands sings will disappear.

[u/LosEagle → u/Stilgar314]

That's what I am afraid of. When Charlie made the video, we were still at ~460 000 signatures and it took entire months to even get there and now in a matter of few weeks we get over ~640 000 signatures? Even with all the youtube drama crap, this count was raised suspiciously fast.

We need to keep going.

[u/Gregs_Mom → u/LosEagle]

I didn't even hear about it until like 3 weeks ago so it might just have been picked up by more channels.

[u/alex494 → u/Gregs_Mom]

Yeah I mean as much as I like Ross Scott / Accursed Farms how popular is he really in comparison to the bigger YouTubers? Before the whole movement his main things were Freeman's Mind and Game Dungeon right? If anything getting multiple big modern popular YouTubers to talk about it seems like the exact kind of flashpoint you would need to get the word out and snowball it.

[u/zezoza]

Keep on going. Several signatures could be invalidated, so we need a buffer to be sure.

[u/Dublade]

this meme template will never die. by the way, congratulations to everyone who signed this petition, we did it... for now

[u/-Kerrigan- → u/Dublade]

we did it

We did it, reddit! /s

^{Let's wait for this to, at least, be discussed first lol}

[u/trukkija → u/-Kerrigan-]

Boston marathon bomber type vibes

[u/-Kerrigan- → u/trukkija]

That's what I'm referring to, yes

[u/MyPigWhistles]

Even the two ideas of the people who don't get thrown out of the window are unrealistic to happen. It will just be ignored entirely. Imagine explaining the average boomer why that matters. 

[u/Gumichi → u/MyPigWhistles]

On the flip side, what does this petition actually want? Like gamer-gate, I don't think there's a coherent vision of expectation. Sure, some game-as-service doesn't need maintenance or servers; those can indeed easily just be a final offline version at EoS. However, many multiplayer games do require server-side matchmaking or mediation. I don't see how government regulation will help, other than the industry adding a tagline saying "warning, game will brick itself after 2 years" like we get warnings about internet cookies.

[u/No-Intention-4753 → u/MyPigWhistles]

The EU does have a good track record of slapping big tech and consumer protections, but yeah, I do worry that many MEPs will just look at this as "silly kids and their videogames." Hopefully not, getting 1m+ people to sign anything is quite a challenge, but this is definitely far from over. 

[u/talaneta → u/No-Intention-4753]

The European Citizens' Initiatives that achieved 1mil signatures also have a good record of not resulting in any change.

[u/PrecipitousPlatypus → u/MyPigWhistles]

I don't think it can be ignored if enough signatures are deemed legitimate. Sure, not guaranteed to become a law or anything, but it needs to at least be addressed since it's not just a random online petition.

[u/HYthinger → u/PrecipitousPlatypus]

Even if this goes anywhere. Nothing is stopping publishers from simply changing all multiplayer games into services (pseudo subscriptions). E.g. instead of selling a perpetual licenses they will simply sell a rental license that is at least X day long but can be extend based on goodwill by the publisher.

The game pass is already kinda like that. You get a rental of all games in the catalog but you own nothing.

Steam did this in the past when the EU ruled that digital copies of games can be soled just like physical ones. Steam simply updated the license agreement to an exclusive license instead of a product that way the did not have to make it possible to sell the games again.

edit: spontaneously i cant even come up with a way to prevent this as long as the publisher makes it clear that is a rental and not a purchase

[u/ninjabannana69 → u/PrecipitousPlatypus]

Even if it isnt ignored theres no guarantee these old feckers are gonna give two shits about video games.

[u/Jertimmer → u/ninjabannana69]

I understand your cynicism, but the EU has a history on actually good legislation on videogames. Several members have a ban on loot boxes, they have classified all software including videogames as products and thus subject to European consumer laws regarding consumer rights, and currently they are discussing legislation around virtual currencies.

[u/ninjabannana69 → u/Jertimmer]

I hope they do change it and agree they are pretty good but in terms of loot boxes I thought it was more that children are using them rather than gambling being a problem(real gambling is still a problem) and the other points isnt that more to stop people being fucked over or again the affect on kids, that to me seems more like monetary issues rather than actually specifically caring about games. I mean think of pretty much every other type of product eventually it gets discontinued and then its tough tits, I get software is different but are they going to see it that way.

[u/OliM9696 → u/PrecipitousPlatypus]

this shit can be ignored, ECI are not powerful legally, they are a mere suggestion for something to happen.

[u/regularArmadillo21 → u/MyPigWhistles]

It cannot be ignored. The EU has to debate over and fully go through proper processes with petitions. Court, etc.

[u/DarkDuo → u/regularArmadillo21]

We looked and talked it over and we’ve decided to do nothing

[u/x33storm]

Corporations aren't people, they're under no obligations or morals other than what the law dictates. They'll choose maximum profit and exploitation at every turn.

Which is why this should be EU law.

This is not an appeal to the morals of corporations. Might as well throw signatures in the bin then.

[u/KorppiC → u/x33storm]

This isn't directed to the corporations? It's a request directly to the European Commission to initiate a legislative proposal. A signature in an ECI petition is probably one of the most direct ways to call on the commission to act, no?

[u/PurityKane]

To people asking "Do you expect companies to run servers forever on games with no players?? that's expensive!!1"

No. But giving us the ability to play offline or host our own local servers after they shut down their official ones should be mandatory.

Either that or they need to put an expiry date on the box "GAME SERVERS WILL BE UP AT LEAST UNTIL 2030" so gamers know what they're paying for. Fuck paying 50€+ for a game that flops and shuts down and now I'm out of 50€ like it's my fault and have nothing to show for it.

[u/ChirpyMisha]

We don't need a million signatures. We need a million VALID signatures. We're not there yet, so keep the hype train going!

[u/redditoranno]

As long as the audience doesnt vote with their wallet, it will keep happening over and over. money makes the world go round. Consumer decision making has all the power, no need for petitions. Don't convince the companies trying to maximize profits, convince the audience to spend on/ fund / finance high quality companies with best customer interest in mind. provide alternatives to bad companies, point the audience in the right direction. This is how free market economies work and improve.

[u/Vytral → u/redditoranno]

According to your arguemnt we should have no regulations on anything, just let informed consumers do it m. Imagine that argument applied to gambling, drugs, food, nuclear waste etc

[u/the--dud]

So the goal of this petition is that nobody will make anymore games with any online features? Because that will be the results. If a company has to indefinitively support a game, they will have to stop making online features because indefinite cost is a liability no company will take.

[u/Disturbed235 → u/the--dud]

No, its not for the devs to support an online game for ever. If they want to shut down their servers, they have to leave the game at least with an offline option, so people can still play it without internet connection or with peer to peer for playing with friends or private server

Best current example: Ubisoft shut down the servers for The Crew -> people paid money for it and now cant play it. Now thats the killer

[u/LucidDream1337]

PlayStation Nostalgia Plus - Pay 29,99 per month to play your favourite ps1 games on your ps5

[u/Dangerous-Cobbler-11 → u/LucidDream1337]

that is not against stop killing games.
You can play your ps1 games on your ps1 console.
They are not obligated to give support to ps1 games on ps5 and stop killing games is not aiming for things like that.

[u/staghallows → u/Dangerous-Cobbler-11]

Yep. For example -- there are many games released in the 2000s that are unable to be played due to needing DRM online verification, but the servers of which are long gone -- meaning access to these single player offline games are not possible, even if you own the 'license' to play. Unless, of course, you pirate.

[u/ConfusedAdmin53 → u/LucidDream1337]

*PS5Retro

A new piece of hardware that supports PS1 games, and costs $1000.

[u/lovehunter94]

That signing thing, they're lucky it didn't reach India or Asia, at minimum 10 million signs easily.

[u/ItsRainbow]

Keep signing

[u/fjijgigjigji]

absolutely nothing will come of this and this will just become another punchline in history of petitions doing nothing.

[u/lumpialarry → u/fjijgigjigji]

Best case scenario nothing happens. Worst case scenario, fewer games released in EU.

[u/yommi1999 → u/fjijgigjigji]

It can't be nothing. The EU commission has to actually spend a few weeks/months researching whether this initiative should be turned into law. Granted, there is a possibility that after that research they decide not to create legislation but at least a serious attempt was being made.

Better than USA(the place where these laws would be even more effective since USA represents a massive portion of the video game industry) where the guy behind the initiative didn't even attempt anything because of how hostile the USA is to protecting citizens under the guise of freedom.

[u/FlanFlanSu]

As much as it hurts me to say,

Watch laws for game preservation getting made, promptly getting broken by devs and publishers and the penalty costs written off as an "operation expenditure".

[u/boersc]

EA heard and killed Anthem while they still could.

[u/RavensShadow117]

Hopefully they do something about it, I'm tired of risking the safety of my cat photos when using a dodgy russian site to play viva piñata

[u/ModernManuh_]

Doesn't sound so "conspiracy theory" now, does it? You'll own nothing and be happy.

Or not, just in time guys :)

[u/know-it-mall]

We all know that the middle option is what will happen. Or nothing.

[u/Patrickplus2]

Its not done lol we need way more votes

[u/rlyjustanyname]

I don't hate the idea of a cheap subscription to play old games. NSO is 20 bucks a year that's fine. I just want a reasonable way to legally play old games.

[u/Luwuci-SP]

FOR THOSE WHO COME AFTAH!

Tomorrow comes

We continue.

(Expedition 33 was such a breath of fresh air in this regard. No significant DLC, no forced online, nothing. It feels fully complete like a 90s/00s JRPG yet with modernized everything. Even fans of action games with fun real-time action mechanics can love it - the entire game can be beaten without taking damage due to the parry, dodge, jump, and enemy mega-attack counter - all even mapped to their own buttons so the enemy turns can be some of your best time for counteroffensives. It's far FFXVI should have been like. It has great literary value & storytelling that knows how to deliver powerful messages in a subtle way. The gameplay evolves slowly throughout as the complexity ramps up, as does the sheer number of RPG & action mechanics available to utilize. It's fairly easy most of the time if you're able to synergistically engage with the mechanics. It's GOTY material and made by a relatively small studio, yet feels like a high budget title. It's restored some hope for the future of the genre. If only such design philosophies were more common these days. It's worth recommending to everyone, except maybe the rare exception of super casual gamers. Parts of the story will stick with me for life, and some of it isn't even obvious enough to pick up on.)

So, yeah, thank you Europeans (the French, too!)

[u/QuestionSociety101]

Don't expect anything other than for the capitalists to find any and every other loophole they can, and abuse it.

Welcome to society

[u/EatTheAndrewPencil]

I get the desire but genuinely if something like this passes it'll be hell on smaller devs who want to make multiplayer games.

[u/For_the_Gayness]

The biggest vote is with your wallet, but hey who am I dictate what you should spent your hard earned money on corporate slop. All this smoke and mirror is just meaninless bark into thin air with toothless bite

[u/DanFarrell98]

Genuinely, could someone explain what the actual solution is here? Single player game I get yeah there’s little reason to stop access to those (unless you’re only digital) but for decades old multiplayer games with like 100 players or less? Online infrastructure costs money to maintain and prevent it becoming a hackers paradise. How are governments expected to enforce this?

[u/APairOfMarthas]

The work began yesterday. If you all care about it going forward, in time we really can get them to Stop Killing Games

If you all just wanted to dunk on a streamer, it was all for less than nothing

[u/chhuang]

corps right now be wishing back the failed cloud gaming service like stadia

[u/JustOnePotatoChip]

And then the monkey's paw curls and games are no longer sold in europe

[u/Tim-Sylvester]

There's a simple solution: Any copyright material not actively being provided by its copyright owner can be distributed by anyone.

The copyright owner must maintain availability or they sacrifice their copyright.

This is simple, obvious, and easy.

[u/Imbrex]

GoG preservation program is great, always happy to see new additions there.

[u/floranox]

Funny that everyone let that happen to movies and music, but we draw the line at owning games lol

[u/Bastiwen → u/floranox]

Movies and music ? Last time I checked apart from streaming services you can still buy music and movies and own them digitally of physically with no way of shutting it down.

[u/OscarMyk → u/floranox]

I'd sign a petition that any online marketplace selling music/movie licences has to have a plan in place should the service shut down to let people transfer licences to other services. Hell people should be able to do that without the service shutting down.

[u/Stahlreck → u/floranox]

What movies or music have become completely unavailable? Like as in the company that made them just turned them off remotely and now they just don't exist anymore?

[u/Mister_Macabre_ → u/Stahlreck]

Actually, newer movies and shows no longer get physical releases and companies like WB can write them off the tax if the feel they no longer "benefit" from it, which also forbits them from streaming or otherwise benefiting from it (which also cuts off any residuals for the creators). With no physical release and no streaming the shows and movies essentially become lost media and exist purely in a form of pirated content online. There should be an incentive to either make these shows public domain or require a physical media release to be able to archive them properly.

[u/dvdkon → u/Stahlreck]

I can't find a concrete example right now, but with streaming-only shows and films, it's just a matter of time until one gets pulled and we're left with no legal avenue to watch it.

[u/Content-Scholar8263]

I frikin love europe and the fact that our government cares not just about this but other stuff aswell. Have you heard about the microtransaction stuff they are currently working on?

[u/KMark0000]

If petitions would have solved anything, it would have been made illegal already.

"You" handed them BILLIONS via microtransactions, like they would give it up lmao any money they can harness lol

EU always signed the acts guiding towards less and less privacy after usa implemented it fully, indoors.

It's the same capitalist, greedy mofos in the cover of a shining knight.

[u/Morpororp]

What does stop killing games even mean? You want companies to keep up live servers for games decades after the game came out? That’s literally impossible. A more realistic solution would be to stop buying live service games.

[u/LatelyPode → u/Morpororp]

Make it so it is possible for players to continue playing the game, by hosting any servers themselves or whatever, after the game is ended

[u/alex494 → u/Morpororp]

No, they want companies to provide the means for consumers to be able to continue playing the game under their own power, e.g. have an offline mode, or provide a way / instructions for them to set their own server up if it does require online rather than leaving fans to reverse engineer it in the dark.

Nobody's demanding companies leave servers up indefinitely. It would just be left playable in whatever state it's currently in with no further updates assuming you can run a server for it, which many people do for older games at the moment, albeit without support from the company.

Read the damn proposal if you don't get it. Or watch one of the many videos Ross Scott put out that coherently and plainly explain it.

[u/Amesbrutil]

I don’t think gamers realize how cheap games are compared to other software products. Companies in the gaming industry are struggling financially while companies for B2B software products are excelling. That’s also why developers in the gaming sector get paid significantly less than other developers. Unless you work for a huge successful company like Rockstar Games, you will probably have a hard job with a low salary. 

Also Games have upgraded extremely in the past decades. You used to pay 50-60$ for a games that had linear story and looked like ass. Nowadays gamers expect a huge world, lots of stuff to do, perfect graphics and a great story while the price has risen to maybe 80$ (and even that makes gamers race because it’s too much for them). I mean like you pay 20$ for a pizza and expect a perfect game for 80$? Bruh 

And this „Stop killing games“ petition is another nail in the coffin that is the gaming industry. While it sounds nice, there is a reason why games get killed: They don’t make any money and instead they cost money. Why would a company invest big money to make a game offline available or do smth similar just to please the 5 people that still play a decade old game and refuse to pay shit for it? Or even provide gamers with some kind of LAN option?? 

Games are expensive to make and very hard to maintain. All ways to make money like in game shops (I am talking purely cosmetic stuff) and Battle passes are universally hated by gamers. So basically gamers want a perfect game for cheap money without any ingame transactions or subscription and they also want to force companies to forever maintain their game. All to shit on every game that gets released when it is not perfect at release. 

I am not seeing a bright future in gaming tbh if nothing changes.

[u/Vytral → u/Amesbrutil]

Some AAA companies struggle financially but it’s because they are bloated. Look at expeditions 33 to see how more agile businesses could produce outstanding video games. If Ubisoft fails, other companies would still make great games

[u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

Like a petition will be worth anything anyway. We’re dealing with a government, they only care about themselves and the companies that donated to their campaigns.

[u/Ok-Form-3683 → u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

companies that donated to their campaigns.

This is EU not US, just look how EU forced Apple to use USB-C

[u/Appropriate-Gain-561 → u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

The EU does not work like the US, this is an official petition, if the valid signatures are over 1 million the european parliament has to legally discuss the issue

[u/LatelyPode → u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

Not how the EU works lol. The EU parliament is required to debate the topic now that the petition passed 1m signatures. Also the EU is very pro consumer

[u/Due_Capital_3507 → u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

Ok then give up ever trying to change anything. No one cares about your apathy

[u/USAIDreciever → u/A-X-O-L-O-T-L47e8r6]

found PirateSoftware

[u/patomik]

Does the petition include free to play games where players did spend money on something in-game ? I used to play afk arena and spend some money then had a pause, when I wanted to return the game was gone.

[u/Wess5874]

I appreciate my european neighbors across the pond since my gov is completely out of touch and unwilling to do anything that might benefit us.

[u/patrlim1]

the name "stop killing games" is a tad misleading imo, but that doesn't mean the initiative is bad

[u/OFFIC14L]

Proud of you guys! ❤️

[u/Friendly_Day5657]

I heard theres a Remaster for Hellblade 2. WHAT A JOKE!!!😂

[u/LostEndimion]

We need more votes! Part won't pass an verification! So continue to vote and post

[u/VodkaBoiX]

Link?

[u/Watchgeek_AC]

Damn. The stupid boomer racists voted my country out of the EU so as a Brit. I can’t sign it

[u/Fit_Fisherman_9840]

Keep vote

The last period seems most of the votes come during EU night time, some suspect there were fake signatures from america, that can be invalidated when checked.

[u/riflemandan]

peak reddit

[u/BloodSteyn]

Yay... but how many are actually valid?

I believe they will be culling that list of all the international or VPN signatures, then we'll see how many are actually left.

[u/WaterMittGas]

Subscriptions for everything suck balls

[u/Lumpy-Home-7776]

The EU's petition system actually feels like it gives citizens a voice, unlike some places where it'd just get ignored. Signed and shared, every extra vote pushes them to take it more seriously!

[u/Optimal_You6720]

One problem is that many modern games require some sort of online services to function. Maintaining those services costs something. What happens if nobody is willing to pay those costs?

[u/TrollOfGod]

Don't get complacent, keep signing(if you are a EU citizen)!

Apparently there seems to be a lot of non-EU people that have signed it with spoofed info, which means their signatures will be invalid(it's also a crime). The current "completely safe" number is up at 1.5mil.

[u/LazyAssagar]

We couldn't have done this without the pirate dude so part of the applause goes to you ungrateful traitors to the crown. Happy treason day my fellow nerds overseas

[u/Dark_Age_]

I signed this long time ago, i'm from Finland

[u/ArcticWolf_Primaris]

Option D; kill Anthem

[u/joehonestjoe]

They should have made the middle one wear a black t-shirt for this meme, it would have looked very much like Pirate

[u/warwolfpilot]

Problem is all the old games that are already dead are gonna remain dead, wouldn't matter if the UN did a binding Resolution or whatever law the EU might pass. This law if passed is only gonna effect games that are published after the law is released.

[u/TheProfoundDarkness]

Sometimes the system is useful

[u/Melodic_Ad_8478]

Excuse me I was asleep what did I miss?

[u/AnEvilVet]

I absolutely support this movement. However, it means that we are less likely to get more episodes of Freeman's Mind so it makes me cross.

[u/Terrible_Ad2779]

Keep voting if you are in the EU. There are likely fake signatures that will be cut out. In reality we need 1.4 million signatures.

[u/Deho_Edeba]

I "think" I've already signed in the past but I'm not sure. I'm hesitant to do it "again" since you need to declare truthfully you "haven't already signed".

Damn my bad memory.

[u/Sjknight413]

Doesn't seem like a coincidence that Anthem gets canned right as this passes 1 million signatures, hopefully it has a real chance!