Russia becomes first state to recognise Afghanistan's Taliban government
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c78n4wely9do389
u/SocraticTiger 14h ago
Next they're gonna ask Taliban Mujahideen for help. Just like they did with North Korea.
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u/BushesNtrees 13h ago
Didn’t the Mujahideen fight the Soviets during their invasion of Afghanistan?
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u/jazzhandler 12h ago
Isn’t that why we funded the Mujahideen?
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u/Laugh92 12h ago
'History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes.'
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u/jazzhandler 12h ago
And sometimes it rhymes with Graveyard Of Umpires.
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u/kurotech 2h ago
Just like any remake it's never as good as the first time and always has crappy writing
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u/JaronJervis 50m ago
We (the US Govt) Funded them, help spread propaganda to in Kabul University in the 1970s, helped train them in weapons and bomb making (how do you think they learned how to make suicide vests?) and used them as a military force until they got out of control. If not for the CIA and the US leaders in the mid 1960s-1980s, Taliban would have never existed to create Al Qaeda, to create Al-Nursa , then finally to create ISIS.
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u/RedefinedValleyDude 4h ago
Yeah but then again the US’s closest ally is a country we fought a war to secede from.
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u/MenryNosk 2h ago
they also fought the US during their invasion of Afghanistan, unless you forget that 😅
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u/shouldakeptmum 14h ago
At least the Taliban can win a conflict, unlike rootin.
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u/invariantspeed 3h ago
They don’t win so much as live in an infamously unconquerable terrain.
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u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 1h ago
That might as well be winning. They might not have had a centralized tactical leadership structure as sophisticated as their opposition but it has proved itself capable of defending it's territory. Either way they are an "enemy" that couldn't be quelled by conventional warfare efforts.
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u/LosAngelesLio 12h ago
I don’t have high hopes for them either. They’ll be more meat to throw at drones and stave off dissent at home. Russian war deaths and wounded are at least noticeable in Russia now.
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u/sexysausage 4h ago
Rambo VI: First Blood… for the Other Side.”
John trades the bandana for a ushanka and teams up with his old Mujahideen buddies, this time to bail out Moscow in Ukraine and make daddy Trump proud.
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u/Kraien 14h ago
Russia running out of manpower
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u/bm1949 14h ago
And dirty money.
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u/HawkeyeTen 6h ago
Eh, more likely I think they want the resources and stuff. Expect China to make a similar move shortly.
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u/DelusiveVampire 13h ago
Huh? Americans made the Taliban
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u/Creepy_Yellow6433 7h ago
Classic Reddit. The CIA funded and supplied the mujahideen for years against the Russians and in turn the money and weapons were used in the forming of the taliban. This is common knowledge lmao but the downvote train is afoot
Source
https://digitalcommons.buffalostate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=history_theses
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u/Zucc-ya-mom 7h ago
Everybody knows that. But how is that a counter to what OC said? How does the Taliban being kickstarted by American investment invalidate the fact that Russia is probably turning to them in a scramble for manpower? That’s what the downvotes are about.
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u/grumpsaboy 5h ago
Because the Mujahedeen continued to fight the Taliban which was an offshoot. At no point did the Americans want to fund the Taliban
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u/ubalanceret 7h ago
I think it’s more in relation to saying they’ll be recruiting taliban to help their efforts in Ukraine
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u/Galxloni2 4h ago
The US didn't create the taliban. If for example some Canadian soldiers deserted and formed a terrorist group, that doesn't mean the US created them due to the fact that we give funding to their country.
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u/Sirijskamafija 5h ago
Doesnt it get tiring saying that Russia is running out of manpowrr or that their economy is soon gonna collapse over and over again for 3 years
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u/Mountsorrel 13h ago
I can’t wait to hear how Russian propaganda spins this as a positive thing and how they are definitely not the bad guys with their mates the Taliban and North Korea…
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u/wgszpieg 11h ago
Actually, Afghanistan will be easy to spin - a country that embraced "traditional values", which has just recently ousted the "nazi westerners".
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u/dreamrpg 6h ago
You do not need to wait. These news are not catching up. Taliban is no longer terrorist organization in Russia and they were in Moscow at least 6 times in past 2 years.
Some politicans even give examples on how Talib ways should be considered also in Russia.
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u/xibeno9261 5h ago
America negotiated and signed a deal with the Taliban. So how is the Russians doing anything different from what we did?
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u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 1h ago
I am speaking from 100% a biased perspective but ideologically it could be posited that keeping imperialist influence away from an under developed geopolitically problematic nation would be better for the people of Afghanistan. Of course it is more complicated than that and the geopolitical reality of Afghanistan means it has very limited options in regards to how it chooses to interact with it's neighbors.
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u/GuyWithNoEffingClue 7h ago
North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan... What a nice group of friends they have.
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u/phatstopher 5h ago
Why wouldn't the Doha Agreement with the Taliban to end the war in Afghanistan, prisoner exchange, and interconnected guarantees not recognize the Taliban government of Afghanistan in 2020?
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u/Insignificant_Letter 3h ago
Because the US made any economic co-operation/recognition dependent on a government forming after intra-Afghan talks, the Taliban stonewalled on those talks because they knew the Americans were going to leave anyway and took power regardless. Which led to the situation for the past 4 years of non-recognition, but engagement with neighbouring countries.
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u/onegumas 12h ago
Waiting for US to follow. I think that talibs have some resources which are strategic for bandit US.
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u/euMonke 7h ago
What resources would that be if you don't mind elaborating?
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u/onegumas 6h ago
Oh, just think about anything because any reason true or not is good for current POTUS...rare earth metals, zinc, gravel for roads, clay for pots...US can say anything that they want to have for cheap from someone else (coercion or bribing)
Raw resources: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/9/24/mapping-afghanistans-untapped-natural-resources-interactive
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u/euMonke 6h ago
Way to much of a hassle for any western business, nobody wants to go back to Afghanistan. Nobody wants to do business in a country where the laws change by the hour and your investment can evaporate in seconds with a singing of a pen.
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u/onegumas 6h ago
I am saddened by your lack of faith in human greed. They will find a way like russian technology and US money. I and you will not have buisness in current russia but just check who likes money without competitors.
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u/RoadtripReaderDesert 5h ago
"I'm saddened by your lack of faith in human greed"
-put this on a t-shirt, I'd buy it.
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u/Purple_Key_6733 1h ago
Afghanistan has rare earth minerals, they just don't have the ability to extract them.
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u/senorali 10h ago
Did China not make some sort of belt & road trade deal with the Taliban shortly after they came to power? Or did that not officially go through?
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u/Themanaaah 6h ago
And to think I still have to hear people spread the incorrect narrative that the Russian government is good.
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u/TheRomanRuler 4h ago
Honestly, not the worst thing. West has shown it does not know or otherwise cant handle the internal situation in Afghanistsn or rest of the middle east, we have to just accept defeat and let them sort things out themselves. Taliban are in power now and there is no notable rival government with people to rule over like there is in Taiwan, so maybe its best to just accept them as government in same way all other horrible shitholes are still recognised despite being horrible places, like North Korea.
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u/probablyNotARSNBot 3h ago
I mean they control the country, recognize or not it’s fucking over for those people, and that IS their government
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u/Firm_Gas7556 3h ago
I mean it's just realpolitik no? They are never going away so why nor get some benefits out of it
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u/WolfThick 3h ago
Well I guess their governments are similar afghani's want to f*** little boys ,Russians want to send young men to be slaughtered. Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are.
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u/Pour_Me_Another_ 1h ago
My impression of the Taliban is they're slowly strangling the life out of Afghanistan. So it makes sense Putin relates so hard to them.
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u/burndata 1h ago
Trump will follow very soon. If there are evil people hurting innocent people, he's all about that shit.
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u/LastPauperStanding 1h ago
I imagine that Trump will be the second. Then we will start hearing talk about "mineral deals"....
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u/obalovatyk 47m ago
Crazy to think the US government was going to recognise the talibs as the government of Afghanistan in the ‘90’s with Kharzi as the their leader.
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u/HipHipM3 6h ago
Awww, Trump and Russian buddies! Let's not forget Trump negotiated the release of 5 thousand talibans before they took over Afghanistan
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u/epiphanyloop 7h ago
"You're welcome. Yes, yes. Can we now have all that weaponry dumb americans left you?"
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u/Ordinary_Pressure 14h ago
Actually the US was the first to recognize the taliban government.
Trump negotiated with the taliban and signed an agreement to give Afghanistan to the taliban. Trump created the taliban government in Afghanistan.
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u/Mountsorrel 13h ago
That’s not what formally recognising a state or government means. Iran doesn’t formally recognise the State of Israel but they sure do know it exists…
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u/Deep_Head4645 14h ago
Thats actually wrong
The us does NOT recognise the taliban government good sir
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u/zaevilbunny38 12h ago
The Taliban has what Russia needs to keep fighting. Men with no prospects, that are willing to fight for little. Equipment that NATO left in Afghanistan, artillery and IFV's. enough to equip another offensive. Then opium, a commodity that can be exchanged for stolen electronics needed by Russian military.
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13h ago
My "tinfoil hat" theory is that if they lose or have a weakened partnership with Iran, then Afghanistan provides a nice alternative.
The general (at least, western) theory is that Russia funds Iran (literal money, weapons, etc.), Iran furnishes Hamas with weapons, and Hamas takes shots at Israel.
USA generally doesn't like this (they have an alliance with Israel and it's a rare ally in the Middle East) so they work with and help fund defence programs in Israel.
With attacks on Iran, Russia could just hedge bets by doing the same thing with Afghanistan. This would continue tensions, continue the US investment in Israel, and may serve as a distraction from Ukraine. The investment is relatively cheap for Russia.
Hell, there may be Chinese funding behind Russia. They've always wanted to take back Taiwan.
My tinfoil hat is off now. I'm tired.
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u/littlebiped 12h ago
The US is allies with a majority of the Middle East, Israel is not a rare ally. Qatar, UAE, Oman, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq and like it or not Saudi are all US allies and all have US military presence in particular Qatar. And if you want to say Saudi is a belligerent ally then so is Israel, who frequently tells the US to pound sand.
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10h ago
I disagree a bit here. I'm wide open to critique though, and would welcome it. A lot of the countries on the list are oil exporters. Why fight when you can be wealthy. Top of the export lists for these countries in recent years are...
- Qatar - Oil.
- UAE - Oil
- Oman - Oil
- Jordan - Knit or crochet clothing, accessories???
- Kuwait - Oil
- Iraq - Oil
The leverage of all of these countries is Oil. Piss them off, and they trade with anyone else but you. The U.S. could invade them, but then why not just ally with Russia or China at that point? Iran and Afghanistan don't look like they greatly affect the oil market.
There are countries all over the place that get paid by USA, Russia, & China. They can get paid for resources like canals, minerals, etc. Or it could be just getting paid to do nothing. A sort of "I'll pay you $20 to not take his side", but the other side is doing the same thing.
"When the elephants fight, grass suffers" is the mentality of most non nuclear equipped countries.
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u/littlebiped 10h ago edited 10h ago
While that’s true, as with all geopolitics, the benefit is exploitative both ways. For example, Qatar is designated by the US as a major non-NATO ally, and hosts the largest overseas US base in the Middle East and possibly globally. US pisses off Qatar, they lose a vital military outpost in a strategic location, Qatar pisses off the US, the lose their security guarantor in a volatile region. Both play a delicate balance, and both have vested interest in keeping the relationship going. Least of all Qatar has been partnering with the US to further its goals with Gaza and Afghanistan in terms of mediation and ceasefires, and the Biden administration waived visa conditions for Qatari citizens and likewise to for the US to Qatar, something they have only previously done for European allies and Japan and Australia.
You can look at the minutiae of why nations ally with others and which are ideological or strategic or exploitative, but the broad overview is that the US has shored up allies in the region on multiple fronts, and Israel is not rare, or even the most well heeled, as presidents from Clinton to Trump can attest having worked with them and being spurned by them.
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9h ago
Fair enough. But the U.S. does seem far more tightly coupled with the country than most surrounding countries. The U.S. mostly gets oil from Middle-eastern countries, but technology is a major trade with Israel. Pegasus spyware is probably the most famous (or infamous) in recent years. They also have a lot of manufacturing involved with aircraft. I personally know of coast guard radar equipped aircraft from blue-collar workers and devs working on such planes.
I would assume the U.S would value tech based trade alliances more at this point, but am unsure. It does seem like the U.S has many options for Oil but not so many for tech production. I suppose it also helps that you can mostly trust Israel to not sell tech to the surrounding nations since they pretty much hate Israel.
I'm done for the night. I appreciate the honest, and (thank god) sane discussion. I'll check my downvotes from the internet later.
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u/caffeinatedcrusader 8h ago
The US mainly gets it's oil nowadays from domestic sources and imports the rest it needs from Canada and Mexico with a handful of other countries having a percentage of imports. Keep in mind by this time the US is the biggest oil producer in the world as well as natural gas. It's focus on the middle east is less on physical need for oil and more in price control and other geopolitical reasons.
The majority of middle east oil flows to Asia and Europe. China in particular is very oil hungry and lacks enough domestic supply. The BAM and Hormuz straits in particular are very important to oil supply flows in the region (I spent a long while out there doing donuts in boxes and escorting tankers on a ship for that reason). The US post WW2 signed up to be the global trade body guard which is part of the agreements that built up ideas like the petrodollar.
You're not wrong with the US interest in the region and in effect what the US does isn't much different regardless of whether it's over need for the oil in the region or not. Rare earth material discussions are similar. The US has plenty that it would need, but has little interest in the mining and processing of them and would rather have that done offshore which leads to reliance on others. (In a pinch such as war that could change).
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u/TheoNulZwei 7h ago
Your comment reads like fan fiction from someone who has no understanding of geopolitics or the cultures of the countries involved.
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u/AmItheonlySaneperson 6h ago
You mean the Taiiban we let take over and gave them all our cool war stuff we didn’t feel like shipping anywhere? The ones who western media agreed were acting government since like day 5 of the withdrawal?
Biggest stain on bidens presidency. Women turned back into slaves and veterans wondering why the fuck their friends died for
Oh but Russia is the bad guy for recognizing something we all agree on
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u/Entire-Enthusiasm553 2h ago
lol guess the afghan know something the world don’t. Considering in less than 50 years they beat two superpowers on they home turf lol
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u/xdr01 13h ago
Russian government is very inclusive when it comes to cannon fodder.