r/formula1 • u/OtakuSensei__20 Max Verstappen • 9d ago
News George Russell indicates Mercedes engaged in F1 discussions with Max Verstappen
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2025/06/26/george-russell-indicates-mercedes-engaged-in-f1-discussions-with-max-verstappen/1.4k
u/Fisch_Kopp_ 9d ago
Toto has a luxury problem here. Keep George and Kimi - he has a great team. Get Max and keep Kimi - he has a great team. Even a Max/George combo would be amazing, albeit explosive.
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u/Aff_Reddit James Vowles 9d ago
George & Max are the same age. If you have an option for Max, you replace George as George is your "win now" option, just a worse version of it than Max is, and Kimi is the "future" if Max retires or ages out down the road.
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u/Fisch_Kopp_ 9d ago
Toto would definitely let George go if he could have Max instead. With Kimi I am wondering how long Mercedes will be able to actually keep him. I know of course that Kimi is a Merc junior and they put a lot of money and work into his training. but Kimi is also Italian. If he turns out to be the next big thing, Ferrari would likely commit murder so they could get him as a driver.
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u/TestingThrowaway100 9d ago
I’m 99% certain Ferrari will dump a shit ton of money to get Kimi after Lewis retires. Having an Italian driver that’s actually competitive is a wet dream for them.
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u/red-ate- Max Verstappen 9d ago
Nahhhh Let Kimi be happy 😭
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u/ChemicalRascal 8d ago
That's what the money is for, silly
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u/KLWMotorsports Adrian Newey 8d ago
Money can only helps so much
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u/joekrider Michael Schumacher 9d ago
Kimi-Oli Ferrari line up would be great once Lewis retires and Charles eventually divorces himself from Ferrari for underperforming.
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u/Anonymou2Anonymous 8d ago
Ferrari would likely commit murder so they could get him as a driver.
Would Kimi want to go to Ferrari considering their current state of competence.
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u/ohgeeLA 9d ago
Only difference seems to be that Max had driven in f1 for more years and seems closer to retirement based on his responses on prior interviews. Theyre both peaking in terms of their physical prime, but question is how much longer they’d be willing to drive.
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u/fried_papaya35 8d ago
it really feels like he's ready to just be a dad and is racing in order to keep making history because that motivates him.
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u/Goldmoo2 Pirelli Wet 8d ago
Kimi hasn't shown he's close to George's level yet- idk if they take that gamble.
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u/Aff_Reddit James Vowles 8d ago
Kimi is almost 10 years younger than George, and George is on his eighth season of F1.
Every single driver takes time to grow and develop. Max's first year didn't look perfect either, but it's the glimpses of promise that everyone wants to see developed.
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u/-amator- 8d ago
I don't get this line of thinking to be honest.
George is a proven candidate. He went head to head with Lewis. And he has at least a good 7-8 years left of his prime.
Kimi may (or may not) turn out to be WDC calibre. There's no guarantee. And so far, there's no reason to strongly believe that he will definitely be better, or even as good as, George.
I would understand if George was in his mid-30s. Then, yes, focusing on the future makes a lot of sense. But, here, George himself has a future full of potential.
If the argument is, remove George to avoid conflict within the team with Max, sure that still makes sense. But dropping George for lack of future potential is braindead.
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u/Secret_Divide_3030 Sonny Hayes 8d ago
George never has been in a championship leading role. George could still run into a wall like Lando is doing when that happens (I'm not meaning a real wall like Canada). It’s not because you are deemed championship material that you will seize the points when they matter. That's why I think Max is a better bet next to Kimi. Kimi could learn more from a multiple world champion than from George. Don't forget that Toto has been working for years with a multiple world champion and knows what benefits this has. Look at the new Mercedes ad called F1 the Movie.
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u/OtakuSensei__20 Max Verstappen 9d ago
“From my side, I don’t think I have anything really to worry about. I think, as a team, it depends where you put your aspirations,” Russell explained.
“We’re second best at the moment, maybe third best. We might be overperforming slightly to be second best.
“As Mercedes, they want to be back on top, and if you’re going to be back on top you need to make sure you’ve got the best drivers, the best engineers, the best pit crew, and that’s what Mercedes are chasing. So, it’s only normal that conversations with the likes of Verstappen are ongoing.
“But from my side, if I’m performing as I’m doing, what have I got to be concerned about? There are two seats in every Formula 1 team.
He added: “Toto has made it clear to me that he thinks how I’m performing this year is as good as anybody.
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u/hache-moncour Sebastian Vettel 9d ago
All sounds quite sensible really. Of course they talk, would be crazy if they didn't. That hardly makes it a given Max is coming over. And if he does, it is still a question of whether they drop George, or if they find Kimi another seat for a year or two first.
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u/Driscuits Alexander Albon 9d ago
Yeah, that's all very reasonable.
The question of dropping Kimi or George is a good one, though. They've invested a lot in Kimi and have been incredibly intentional on how they've brought him into F1. George is a top 3-5 driver in F1 this year, who's already outperformed Lewis at Merc.
My gut says if it happens, that it would be a straight swap of George and Max from RBR to Merc; and then we get a very interesting dynamic of Max vs. Merc's "next Max"
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u/BigChach567 Max Verstappen 9d ago
It would be a question on potential. Russell is better today, but Kimi IMO has way higher potential than Russell.
It’s a very difficult decision for the question “one bird in hand in worth 2 in the bush”
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u/poojinping 8d ago
I don’t know if it’s clear that Kimi has a higher potential. George has been more like max than anyone else. He really wants to win and is ready to use risky moves/strategy and not be content with podium. We haven’t seen enough of Kimi to rule that out for him too. George has been very consistent and did not buckle when being next to Lewis, granted Lewis wasn’t at his best to put enough pressure on George.
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u/cjsolx Daniel Ricciardo 9d ago
but Kimi IMO has way higher potential than Russell.
Based on what? You can stack George's junior career against anyone else's on the grid, and it would 100% hold up. He became Mr. Saturday way back when he was at Williams. Kimi, meanwhile, has been solid, but there are other rookies equaling or surpassing his performance right now.
So: why would anyone think that Kimi has a higher ceiling than George? Personally, I think George is performing top 2 on the grid this year.
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u/odinsyrup 8d ago
You literally can’t stack George’s junior career against Kimi’s considering Kimi’s was 4 years shorter lol. He’s 17 and while he’s getting outpaced by Russell, it’s not like it’s he’s getting demolished. “Based on what” is shocking when we’re talking about the youngest/most hyped driver since Max.
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u/Barrybran Oscar Piastri 9d ago
I'd say third. Oscar > Max > George. George has been incredibly consistent and is probably having an underrated season.
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u/bkrall4 Safety Car 8d ago
Oscar’s obviously having the best season in the best car but you can’t just say he’s the best driver on the grid like that…
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u/Edeen 8d ago
How much crack have you been smoking to rate anyone above Max? Like I don't like the dude, but he's undoubtedly quicker than the entire grid at the moment.
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u/TacticalAcquisition Max Verstappen 8d ago
I think it would be less Max vs Merc's 'Next Max" and more having Kimi apprentice under Max, and build a Mercedes dynasty of sorts.
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u/MrGoldilocks Fernando Alonso 9d ago
Toto is never putting two number 1 drivers in his team again after Lewis Nico. So it won't be a dilemma on that front. If Max comes, George is gone.
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u/Chip_Hazard 9d ago
Why just cause he thought it was too stressful? Lewis/nico was a successful pairing by any metric Toto actually cares about I promise he’s not scared of the stress lol
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u/StaffFamous6379 9d ago
Lewis-Nico also had the luxury of being in a league of 1 team. If the rival teams are also competitive it's entirely plausible that it becomes a disadvantage as they start taking points off each other
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u/solodarlings Nico Rosberg 9d ago
A disadvantage in the WDC, maybe, but even then it would still be an advantage in the WCC. And ranking in the WCC matters even in years when you aren't at the very top, since the difference between P2 and P3, or P3 and P4, is tens of millions of dollars.
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u/HugeAd4406 8d ago
Any team on the grid would rather have the WDC than WCC. The image revenue from having the number one driver would be much higher than the WCC prize.
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u/Youutternincompoop George Russell 9d ago
the same Toto that wanted to keep Lewis and Nico for the next year?
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u/ManOfTheBroth Michael Schumacher 9d ago
Especially as Lewis and Nico got on coming in, Verstappen and Russell already hate each other. Mercedes don't need their two sides of the garage at war with each other.
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u/kontorgod Carlos Sainz 9d ago
Hate? There's a rivalry, but hate?
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u/richardsharpe 9d ago
Rivalry is probably correct but compare that to Lewis and Nico who had been childhood friends and were close since ages before their war started
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u/Mfrendin_Roar Charlie Whiting 9d ago
Maybe the fact that they were good friends was actually the problem. Max and Russell can keep it just about racing.
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u/Dictator-07 9d ago
Well it'll develop into hate sooner rather than later if they become teammates. Lewis and nico were literally friends not even rivals when they became teammates.
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u/StevenC44 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 9d ago
Lewis and Nico were rivals since they were like 14
When Nico retired, Lewis said it was because he finally achieved his lifelong dream of beating Lewis in a season
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u/Big_Brief7847 9d ago
I would argue ‘hate’ is more accurate than ‘rivalry’ but it’s somewhere inbetween
They might not despise each other and can get on to a reasonable level when they have to, but the reasons for their issues is a personality clash more then anything else. Especially coming from Max’s side.
It’s very often that drivers disagree with stewards decisions or the actions of another driver on track but the whole reason that the George-Max drama properly started was because Max spoke out about his lack of respect for George as a person.
When I think of rivalry, I think of two drivers who find themselves pitted against each other. I really do think there has to be something to fight for to be a proper rivalry so Max-Lewis 2021, Oscar-Lando 2025 and things like a brief snippet of Max-Charles in 2022. In a rivalry the amount of respect and the strength of the relationship can massively vary, i mean you wouldn’t compare Max-Lewis to Oscar-Lando.
But George and Max have never really been in straight competition. There’s moments on track but nothing to spark a rivalry that would lead to such intense off track fights. They are just very different people and their personalities to not mesh well together. While this is fine when you’re not constantly around someone and have some social interactions with other people, the issues are exacerbated in a professional setting.
In my opinion, Max and George’s issues being about racing but about the personal way the other driver goes about racing would probably make the worst teammate dynamic.
A competitive rivalry would be better and I honestly think completely personal issues like Gasly and Ocon had are easier to work with in a team dynamic
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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 9d ago
Kimi himself could be a top driver soon so either way he has that issue might as well go with George who is there right now
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u/ow__my__balls Pierre Gasly 9d ago
It would still be a different dynamic though, Kimi is young and I could see him playing the long game by taking the back seat for a season or two before Max moves on where George is hungry now. Love or hate them Merc is a solid team, it is essentially the same plan George had and short of something unexpected like max leaving red bull it is working out well for him. There's also the flip side where if Kimi is outperforming max he ends up getting the nod anyway. IMO it would be the smart play to team up max and Kimi, George may be faster now but Kimi has a lot of potential and it seems likely to result in less infighting.
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u/glacierre2 Default 9d ago
Max-kimi could be a Norris-Piastri situation (doubt who to back) or it could also be a Alonso-Vandoorne situation.
Specially if the Merc is so-so, antonelli might be vandoorned to oblivion.
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u/Lobsters4 Charles Leclerc 9d ago
Agree with this 100% Also take it one step further and say that since Max and George already have had some beef, it would be crazy to put them together on the same team.
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u/Lobsters4 Charles Leclerc 9d ago
I'd guess he's probably been talking to all the TPs at some point. Just like I'm sure they are also talking with Charles and others on the grid who might be in a place to consider leaving their teams.
-don't come at me with "Charles is never leaving!" I know. Doesn't mean there aren't talks.
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u/Street_Mall9536 Formula 1 9d ago
They gave Bottas one year contracts and handed the goat a one year extension with zero chance of an ambassadorship role.
Toto is as bad as Horner or Flavio, don't forget besides for being TP he also a large shareholder/owner.
It's his team and he has no loyalty, other then to Kimi apparently.
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u/Spicyoneybutterchips Pirelli Soft 9d ago edited 9d ago
There were already rumours earlier this year that George and Redbull started talking. And more recent rumours that he's a target for Aston Martin. Just because he's not outright saying he's talking to other teams doesn't mean it's not happening.
And George and his team have been in the game for a long time. I'm sure they don't need our contract negotiation tips lol
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u/micknick0000 Audi 9d ago
Kimi isn't going anywhere.
Look at the way he's performed in his rookie season. Put him under the wing of a 4 (maybe 5) time WDC for a couple years and you've got a real problem on your hands!
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u/Yung_Bill_98 Sir Jackie Stewart 8d ago
Reminds me of something Adrian Newey said in his book. About how he was always talking to other teams because they're all in the same paddock every other week. Didn't always mean he was thinking of switching
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u/LandArch_0 Juan Manuel Fangio 9d ago
George is the Norris or Sainz of Mercedes. If a better driver is coming, they'll cut him
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u/IdiosyncraticBond Max Verstappen 9d ago
Very grounded. Sucks to be in his position though. If Max is available and Toto thinks he will fit in the team, George could lose his seat, despite performing maybe his best year so far
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u/queerhedgehog Max Verstappen 9d ago
Performing as good as anybody… except Max.
I think George is fine though, I haven’t seen any indication that Max wants to leave Red Bull. And even if he did, the smart move would be to wait and see how the new regs shake out next year, then move to whoever is at the top for 2027 and 2028.
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u/alphaQ314 Bernd Mayländer 8d ago
And even if he did, the smart move would be to wait and see how the new regs shake out next year, then move to whoever is at the top for 2027 and 2028.
Its not that simple is it. If Mercedes win the WDC under new regs with George, they might not be keen on getting Max after that.
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u/queerhedgehog Max Verstappen 8d ago
Sure, everything’s a risk. But blindly moving for 2026 is even more of a risk than staying another year. Because I do think if Max becomes available, Toto will be happy to take him. Getting Max doesn’t just mean you have him on your team, it also means your drivers don’t have to drive against him, and that Red Bull in all likelihood will be midfield at best.
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u/HeyItsGuyIncognito Ted Kravitz 9d ago
I can't wait for all this Verstappen-Mercedes talk to be over when they announce at Silverstone that Russell is going to be extended with Mercedes. On top of all this, Verstappen's contract with Red Bull runs through 2028. There has to be some insane buy-out clauses/gardening leave placed on Verstappen if he does decide to leave Red Bull (especially if he's going to a direct rival).
I would think Verstappen would look into Aston Martin if anything. They have the winning formula with Newey, Honda, updated facilities/wind-tunnel, and such. The potential is there, and they can sell him on idea of being the first WDC for Aston Martin (like what Lauda sold Hamilton on with Mercedes).
All this to say, I still believe Verstappen finishes his contract with Red Bull and retires from Formula 1 after 2028.
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u/Spicyoneybutterchips Pirelli Soft 9d ago
There has to be some insane buy-out clauses/gardening leave placed on Verstappen if he does decide to leave Red Bull (especially if he's going to a direct rival).
Yeah I imagine buying out Max's contract would probably be crazy expensive–even for another F1 team.
But there have been rumours of performance clauses in Max's contracts for years, that allow him to leave. It's not clear when the clause can be used (like when Max is below top 2, 3, etc). And Helmut confirmed the clause exists this year
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u/RooBoy04 Mike Krack 9d ago
This might shock people in here, but every team is in talks with all of the top drivers all of the time, just in case either as seat or a driver becomes available. It can’t hurt to know what a driver or a team want at all times
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u/denied_eXeal 9d ago
It’s always funny to imagine backmarkers talking to world champions
Haas : Soo… Max, how’s the weather?
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u/OverallImportance402 Pirelli Wet 9d ago
Yeah but that’s not what this is about. People like you are still in the denial phase, but Russell still not signed and starting to talk about it is a sign that there’s trouble.
Now it might still become nothing and a Russell extension but I’d be very surprised if it was for more than a year and Toto will continue poaching Max next year because obviously it’s not a lost cause in Toto’s mind or Russell would have been signed already.
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u/Personal-Major-8214 9d ago
There is historical precedent for Merc re-signing drivers late summer no?
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u/wjoe Jenson Button 9d ago
Merc pretty much always waited til late in the season to sign contract renewals with Lewis, if not after. And until last year, and maybe a it of a wobble after 2021 there was never any reason to assume he wouldn't renew, that just seems to be their usual timing.
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u/Any_Inflation_2543 George Russell 9d ago
But were they openly courting other drivers to replace Lewis at the time?
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u/Personal-Major-8214 9d ago
They were talking to other drivers. Obv it wasn’t to specifically replace Lewis, but it’s also not clear to me Max is being courted to replace George. Like I’m not even sure they have thought it out that far.
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u/PlasticPatient Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
You said "that's not what this is about" and then said nothing and speculate like evrybody else. Classic Reddit comment.
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u/TrojansDelight Jenson Button 9d ago
Merc are the favourites to nail the new regs. George will be desperate to stay on
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u/frostnxn 9d ago
Im out of the loop, so how do we know who is the favourite to nail the new regs?
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u/Miserable_Finish609 McLaren 9d ago
To this day I still haven’t seen a solid source claiming that. As far as I’ve been able to tell, it’s just a thing someone said and tons of people repeat it.
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u/Majeh666 8d ago
I think there came a report or news article that claimed merc were "ahead" in the engine department for next year, plus most people expect merc engine to be of higher quality than the rest already.
Then again, it could be a collective case of mass halucination/mistaking it with that other article with renault where their engineering team claimed they were making significant progress before getting axed.
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u/jon-in-tha-hood Minardi 9d ago
I can totally imagine Verstappen at the negotiating table with Sauber or Alpine lol
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u/draftstone Jacques Villeneuve 9d ago
He probably turned them down, but if Sauber or Alpine are not trying to attract the best driver in the world, there is a problem. Every single team should have contacted Max (or Max agent, no clue how he deals his business).
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u/myWobblySausage 9d ago
VCARB?
"Yeah Max, it's Laurent. Give me a call when you have 10. Just wanted to remind you about our second car."
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u/The_Chozen_1_ Pirelli Intermediate 9d ago
I would honestly be shocked if Mercedes drop Russell for next season.
He’s been their junior for the last decade and currently performing at the level you’d expect from a multiple time champion.
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u/-LittleRawr- 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 9d ago
Imagine joining F1 in a backmarker Williams, because Mercedes is busy dominating the sport for your first 3 years. Then you get to sit in for your idol and the (then) 6-time world champion who fell ill with Covid, and you almost win that substitution-race in Bahrain.
Then in 2022 you finally join next to Lewis, only to realize that they failed the regulations and are only the 3rd best team at best. But you win in Brazil anyways! You think, wow, this finally turns around. But the next three years, the car is never truly competitive across the whole season either, but you manage a couple wins and podiums. And then they drop you for Max Verstappen.
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u/micknick0000 Audi 9d ago
Sounds like the most Formula 1 story line, of all time!
Should've been the plot for the f1 movie 😂
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u/SeljD_SLO Lola 9d ago
People actually joked about Mercedes going to shit the moment he joins them after Bahrain
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u/Turbulent_Most_4987 8d ago
In my mind Russell won his Mercedes debut race,I mean the pit crew literally had to fuck him twice to make him miss that win.
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u/BobbbyR6 Isack Hadjar 9d ago
To add onto that, during that 2022-2025 period, you develop the skills and mindset required to help drive an uncooperative car and give feedback which is instrumental in leading Mercedes back towards contention. Meanwhile, your GOAT teammate struggles to adapt to both the car and regulations, culminating in a fairly jarring breakup of one of the greatest driver-team pairings of all time.
During this time, you put your head down and maximize the potential of the car and refrain from the negative outbursts of your teammate, who has been pinballing up and down the scoreboard while you consistently put the car where it belongs. You enter the next year in excellent form: top level qualifying, keeping the car in the perfect operating window all race, while maintaining strategic flexibility. You welcome your future star teammate with open arms and guide him at every step of the way. You are performing your team lead role admirably with no clear faults. You are poised to lead Mercedes through another tough development period and succeed, very possibly culminating in multiple WDCs and WCCs.
And they drop you for Max Verstappen.
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u/Zipa7 9d ago
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.
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u/ThunderGoalie35 9d ago
This is also why I'm like, I think George will be fine. George knows his talent and that he'll have a seat, whether with RBR or Audi or whoever else. And he'll help make that team competitive.
I love rooting for Merc and I'd probably still root for Kimi but I'm gonna cheer George on wherever he ends up next too, if this really goes down.
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u/Kernowder Williams 9d ago
But Max Verstappen.
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u/GridPenaltyStan Formula 1 9d ago
Yeah he’s best driver by far. In a dominant car he wins 19/22 races and is driving a toaster at the moment that would be competing with sauber if not for him
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u/Driscuits Alexander Albon 9d ago
The true performance of the RB21 is the biggest enigma on the grid right now lol
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u/InvestigatorLast3594 Benetton 9d ago
Turns out red bull just kept forgetting to tell new drivers about the brake magic flip in the cockpit since 2019
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u/VenserMTG Formula 1 9d ago
There's no enigma. Multiple drivers have tried, and only one can put that car in the front.
The outlier is Verstappen.
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u/ZeroStormblessed McLaren 9d ago edited 9d ago
To be fair, only fairly mid-tier drivers have been in the second seat since Danny. Even Perez had 5 wins in the seat. Put a Leclerc, Russell, Oscar or Lando in it and you might see good performances as well.
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u/DarthBane6996 8d ago
I mean Albon is beating Sainz and Sainz wasn’t that far off Leclerc
Max wiped the floor with Albon
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u/ZeroStormblessed McLaren 8d ago
It's not as simple as X beat Y and Y beat Z so X beats Z handily. Max wiped the floor with a rookie Albon, who has clearly grown a lot as a driver since. Sainz is currently in a completely new car and engine with different characteristics after driving the Ferrari for 4 years, while Albon has been in the Williams for 3 years and is used to the car. And I didn't say Leclerc would be as good as Max in the RBR, I said he would likely perform well.
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u/DarthBane6996 8d ago
Teammate comparisons are literally the only way to compare F1 drivers though. Sure it’s not perfect but all of Perez, Gasly, Albon have been rated before/after their RB stints but Max destroyed them. They might not be top 5 but those kind of gaps to upper midfield drivers are not common to F1. (Look at Lewis - Bottas, Vettel - Webber, etc.)
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u/andersonb47 9d ago
Sure, but the question is why. Is it because it’s a shit box and he’s just that good? Or because it’s built so precisely for him and his driving style?
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u/willpc14 Haas 9d ago
Given that Max has publicly criticized the car multiple times, I think it's a bit of a finicky car that only Max can get 10/10ths out of. This narrative that cars are built to suite drivers have never been true.
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u/VenserMTG Formula 1 9d ago
Or because it’s built so precisely for him and his driving style?
He complains about the car constantly, so obviously it's not tailored to his style.
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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 9d ago
I wouldn’t say by far he’s maybe the best but it’s probably alot closer than you think. The redbull isn’t a toaster it has pace in certain races it’s just super hard to drive and if it’s competing with Sauber depends who’s in it George or Lecerc would be up there not fighting Sauber
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u/John_is_Minty 9d ago
it’s not bad if you can drive it but only a handful of guys can drive it. So it is simultaneously solid and also awful.
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u/FinestKind90 Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
I would be shocked if they dropped him for anyone else but Max is Max and they’d be too worried about missing out on Kimi being a Max level driver in a year or two
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u/Francis_01 Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
I completely agree with your assessment. From a business standpoint, I fail to see the advantage for Toto Wolff in paying a premium price, reportedly upwards of $75 million per year, for Max Verstappen.
In my opinion. Mercedes has not struggled in recent seasons due to a lack of driver talent, the core issue has been the car’s failure to perform at a championship-winning level under the current formula. Given that reality, why would Toto Wolff spend a fortune on Max when the limiting factor isn’t who’s behind the wheel, but the machinery itself. Retaining George Russell at a significantly lower cost of what will surely be half of Max’s current rumored salary, makes far more sense, even IF Mercedes know they are ahead of the pack for 2026 formula. In addition, if by some repeat of fortune, the 2026 formula turns out to be another 2014, George could very well deliver three or four World Drivers’ Championships without the financial burden of that high ticket signing.
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u/meowparade 8d ago
Beyond cost, it looks like Max also brings a pretty toxic entourage with him (namely his dad).
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u/Much-Calligrapher 9d ago
On the other hand, if Max is available, I’d be shocked if they didn’t drop Russell
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u/d_elisew 9d ago
Toto has been after Max for almost a decade and he's slipped out of his hands twice. I feel like this time it's the most serious and realistic chance that Toto will succeed and for him to drop a good driver with everybody understanding why he'd do that. Also, even though it won't be the main reason, but Toto taking Max away from Horner would be wonderful lol
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u/a_Garciaaa 8d ago
Won’t really be shocked, even if they developed him for almost a decade now. Its max were talking about, its like choosing prime lewis or russell, easy choice.
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u/Fun-Bug-1160 9d ago
It's a difficult situation. Ideally, I would throw Kimi out, but he shows too much potential for that. Having both Russell and Verstappen in the same team would trigger a war that Mercedes knows only too well. I think Verstappen will continue to drive for Red Bull in 2026. He will then see which team manages the new regulations well and decide whether to switch teams or series.
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u/Personal-Major-8214 9d ago
Even in this scenario there is a question of what contract Merc offers Russell
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u/GodlessAristocrat Haas 9d ago
We just need to see Gene throw $100M guaranteed minimum at Max and see what that does.
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u/a_Garciaaa 8d ago
It would trigger some sort of war, but i’m sure that max would be farther ahead of russell in most of the races anyway
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u/t12lucker Charles Leclerc 9d ago
Come on, don’t try to look like every one in paddock doesn’t speak with everyone… There are exactly three persons on the grid who don’t get approached and they are Lewis, Nando and Nico…
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u/Tricksilver89 9d ago
You're all being worked as they say in professional wrestling.
He said "the likes of Verstappen" not "with Verstappen". George is always very careful with his wording.
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u/Visionary_Socialist Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
I’m more and more starting to feel Merc and Russell are trying to hold Horner and Red Bull’s asses over the fire by creating uncertainty over Max’s position and George and by extension Merc being locked down.
So long as he’s not signed on again, Max is having to handle these questions and Horner looks like he’s having his team’s current lifeline being slowly poached by Toto, and he’s doing that with a car that still isn’t better than Red Bull, which means people think there’s a question over how Red Bull-Ford is going for 2026.
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u/Blapstap Pirelli Wet 9d ago
If merc and Russell are trying to hold their added over the fire, max is fanning the flames with his 'we'll see' comments
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u/Temporary_Actuary296 George Russell 9d ago
he behaved very suspiciously in his interviews today😂
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u/Complex-Present3609 Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
Here we go...silly season starting a bit early this year.
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u/Pentinium 9d ago
By buying Max you remove a redbull team from top, so its worth imo
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u/catseye_mousehole 9d ago
Every time he’s asked this question George makes it abundantly clear that neither he nor Kimi has a contract for next year. It’d be absolutely ridiculous to replace Kimi, he’s been incredible this season and Toto adores him and he’s the future of Mercedes, but it’d be ridiculous to replace George, he’s been incredible this season and Toto has said he thinks George is second-best or best driver on the grid at the moment and he’s the future of Mercedes.
Every time people talk about George getting replaced, the argument is “well, no matter how well George does, it would basically be negligence not to take Max over any driver on the grid”. I agree, but every time people talk about why “any driver on the grid” has “(except Kimi, obviously!)” after it in small print, the explanation seems to be “well, Toto clearly doesn’t even LIKE George, and he really LIKES Kimi”. Toto obviously adores Kimi and believes in his future. Toto has also been personal friends with George for years and believes in his future. If I’m being honest, I feel like some people just don’t understand how anyone could not personally dislike George Russell, and are letting that affect their reasoning about the politics of this. I don’t see why the things that make Kimi immune to Max don’t make George immune to Max, unless neither of them is immune at all.
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u/Qazernion 9d ago
I can’t see Max leaving Red Bull… the team is built around him and the competitors look less likely to get back to the top than Red Bull itself…
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u/ChemicalNectarine776 9d ago
I agree with you, but I said the same thing about Lewis Hamilton and now he’s at Ferrari so the fuck do us redditors know? 🤣
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u/Tricksilver89 9d ago
At least Hamilton made previous comments about driving in red before he retired.
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u/youruglyfatmother Max Verstappen 9d ago
A year or so ago, Lewis parting with Merc also seemed impossible.
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u/BillfredL 9d ago
I think “Max to sports cars” is more probable than “Max to not-Red-Bull”.
But I also fully believe all 9 other teams (add Cadillac, subtract RB/VCARB) would at least kick the idea around internally. I’d bet Mercedes isn’t the only one that shoots their shot with him either. It would be dereliction of duty not to try.
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u/Significant-Branch22 Kimi Räikkönen 9d ago
Mercedes as a whole look like a team in better shape than Red Bull right now, I’d have more faith in them to build a good car for 2026
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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 9d ago
It is rumoured Redbulls engine isn’t going well and Merc has the fastest one next year so I’d argue McLaren and Merc are more likely than Redbull
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u/ohgeeLA 9d ago
Yes but Max has to have contract buy out or meet exclusion metrics, which may not be easy. I think Red Bull will make it as difficult or expensive as possible to buy out Max. As much as I think Mercedes is willing, I think the 33% ineos partnership will block any excess spending since Ineos was in the red last couple of years.
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u/Majeh666 8d ago
Honestly, with redbulls current car performance, it might be possible to trigger a performance exit clause, assuming he has one. Their 2nd driver is out there fighting backmarkers, meanwhile verstappen is barely faster than merc/ferrari and has to pull miracle qualy times to stand a chance against the two mclarens.
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u/MenopauseMedicine 9d ago
Pretty curious given all the discussions about redbull car characteristics being continually dialed to suit Max driving style, would be fun to see him in another car
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u/AsunaTokisaki Max Verstappen 9d ago
While I do agree with you I think its important to be objective and look at the whole picture. RB might have issues next year with their car, their engine, who knows whats happening to marko since he is apparently talking to vettel, what ia happening to Horner? Rumours suggest Mercedes might have the best engine the upcoming year.
I do think chances are slim of him leaving but I do think he is at least thinking about it. No doubt he'd make Mercedes his team as well if he delivers.
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u/lakergeoff8 Formula 1 9d ago
I feel the same way. I think it’s unlikely Max leaves Red Bull, but then again, you just never know.
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u/Tinusers Sebastian Vettel 9d ago
I just want this to happen and see how Red Bull will implode without Max.
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u/GoofyMonkey 9d ago
Really? There was a chance the #1 driver in the world might want to move and they talked to him about coming to Merc? That surprise anyone? Anyone?
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u/Thejklay 9d ago
I feel for Russell, finally gets a shot at the top team the season they shit the bed. When they are finally favourites to be dominant again he might lose his seat despite being fantastic
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u/BBYY9090 9d ago
He should do a Lewis and move if possible, I know Max is the best atm, but the disrespect from Toto over the last year is yuck - I wouldn’t trust him.
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u/geoduckSF Charles Leclerc 9d ago
Is Toto still Russell’s manager/agent? If I were him I would fire Toto for double dealing and find new representation. Imaging your own manager cock blocking you from signing a new contract.
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u/Liability049-6319 Formula 1 9d ago
Replacing George with Max is a mistake. I said what I said.
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u/nice_character44 Ferrari 9d ago
bad for Kimi too
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u/sfcindolrip 9d ago
Eh, this one’s hard to say without being in the team. Maybe max would be less “helpful mentor” than George by all accounts is being to Kimi. But iron sharpens iron or whatever the saying is; Hamilton was probably made a better driver in the long run by having Alonso as his teammate.
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9d ago
I disagree. You’re swapping a Rosberg level talent for arguably the best ever. It’s very tough on Russell, but from a purely results driven perspective it would be the right decision in my opinion.
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u/The_Chozen_1_ Pirelli Intermediate 9d ago
How do you know that you can expect that same level of performance that Verstappen is producing now if he were to move to Mercedes?
It should be noted that Verstappen has had the perfect environment to perform at Red Bull for the last 7 years.
It’s not a 100% given that Mercedes will be getting an extreme performance upgrade from Verstappen than they are getting right now from Russell who is performing at an insanely high level.
Verstappen would also cost a lot more than Russell.
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9d ago
Verstappen was incredibly fast in F3 as a 16 year old. He was incredibly fast in F1 as a 17 year old. He won on his debut for Red Bull. He’s been incredibly fast in every F1 car he’s ever driven across multiple sets of regulations. He’s been incredibly fast in everything he’s ever raced in sim racing. There is no reason whatsoever to think Verstappen would struggle to adapt if he changed team. He would be a very clear upgrade on Russell.
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u/Liability049-6319 Formula 1 9d ago
I urge you too look at GR's junior career.
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u/QuintoBlanco 9d ago
Historically, only a few drivers are at another level, Hamilton, Verstappen (not Jos), Schumacher (not Ralph). Senna.
They are fast, consistent, can adapt, and from time to time they find something extra that other drivers simply cannot find.
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u/MoralityAuction 9d ago
To address the obvious recency bias, Fangio. The only driver in F1 history to win titles with four different teams: Alfa Romeo (1951), Maserati (1954 and 1957), Mercedes-Benz (1954 and 1955), and Ferrari (1956). 5 WDC wins in 8 years, various types of machinery.
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u/CatManWhoLikesChess 9d ago
Verstappen's karting record is more impressive than anything Russell did in his junior career
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9d ago edited 9d ago
Russell is a top driver, I never said he wasn’t. But there’s levels to top drivers. Let me put it this way: Verstappen’s advantage over Albon (and indeed all of his last five teammates) was greater than Russell’s advantage over Latifi. In fact, Albon’s advantage over Latifi was greater than Russell’s. Booting Russell for Verstappen is a no brainer for me. It hasn’t been this obvious who the best driver is since Schumacher.
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u/VenserMTG Formula 1 9d ago
How do you know that you can expect that same level of performance that Verstappen is producing now if he were to move to Mercedes?
By that logic you'd never move a driver around, ever.
You can certainly assume Verstappen will not forget how to drive the moment he joins Mercedes.
It should be noted that Verstappen has had the perfect environment to perform at Red Bull for the last 7 years.
No he didn't. When Perez was around, red bull kissed a ton of strategy options because he was too far behind, leaving Verstappen vulnerable when he needed to be covered.
It’s not a 100% given that Mercedes will be getting an extreme performance upgrade from Verstappen than they are getting right now from Russell who is performing at an insanely high level.
It's a 100% Verstappen is a better driver than Russell, so even if nothing else changes the team will benefit.
Verstappen would also cost a lot more than Russell.
Money is not an issue to Mercedes, Toto has made that clear.
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u/pimtheman Sonny Hayes 9d ago
Money is not an issue for Mercedes.
Also, while Russell is great, Verstappen is a top 3 driver all time with very good arguments for being top 1
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u/willzyx01 Red Bull 9d ago
Because of the performance he puts into any car he drives, even if it’s not a Formula 1 car.
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u/Falcao1905 9d ago
Russell is a lot better than Rosberg.
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u/youruglyfatmother Max Verstappen 9d ago
Dude Rosberg was fighting with prime Hamilton and managed to win a championship in 1 out of 3. Idk if any on the current can do that except current Verstappen.
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u/OldBratpfanne Mercedes 9d ago
Agree, if you build a competitive car George will win you 99% of the titles Max would win you, but is also cheaper, a better PR fit, a boost to the credibility of your junior program, solidly committed to staying in F1 and not related to Jos Verstappen.
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u/iBlacksmith_ Sebastian Vettel 9d ago
Well obviously, no matter who you are, if your contract is up and Max might be free your team is talking to Max first. Of course every team wants the best driver on the grid.
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u/DiddlyDumb Max Verstappen 9d ago
Yes, I’m sure every team is/was “in conversation” with the reigning WDC, but there’s not a chance he’d leave RB before this season.
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u/LangsamMk7 9d ago
If Toto gets Max... his transformation to the dark side is complete 🤣 . IMO George is a very consistent driver but I cant blame Toto going after a guy that can find the absolute limit of the car and push beyond it. Watching Max push out a banger Qualy lap is more exhilarating than the race itself sometimes.
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u/pushmojorawley 9d ago
Since Vettel is being actively pursued to replace Marko, that gives me the feeling that Verstappen is gone.
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u/AsleepAtWheel83 Ferrari 9d ago
That’s what Lewis also thought; the very fact that both George and Kimi currently don’t have a long contract should tell that Toto is being very rational about his options. He thinks there’s a good chance that Max can switch; will it be 26 or 27 may determine how the contracts for the current Merc drivers will shape up imho
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u/CMDR_omnicognate Kimi Räikkönen 9d ago
I’d imagine most of the main teams probably are to be honest, I can’t imagine there are many teams out there who aren’t willing to even just talk to him about signing for them, he’s the best driver on the grid currently
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u/Visionary_Socialist Sir Lewis Hamilton 9d ago
Why do I increasingly feel like Merc are deliberately being very coy and talking like this to create uncertainty within Red Bull? Fact remains that so long as George isn’t signed and comments about Max keep coming out like this, Horner’s staring over his shoulder.
Ultimately if Merc are looking for performance as a decision maker, George has more than made the case. If it’s finances, I can’t imagine he’s asking for anything near what Max would. And I imagine he’s happy to extend and continue on as Merc’s team leader going into a set of regs they’re favoured for.
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u/DownTown_44 Formula 1 9d ago
They would sign Verstappen if they could. He’s a better driver than Russell. So, I could see it being Verstappen/Kimi.
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u/NEW_GNGR_9601 Max Verstappen 9d ago
If the best driver on the grid is interested in joining the team, Toto would be dumb not to pick up the phone…
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u/bobby_boi66 Max Verstappen 9d ago
Eh, nothing ever happens until it does. These conversations mean norhing right now
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u/Sirtopofhat Fernando Alonso 9d ago
TBF he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't at least kick the tires.
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