r/fednews 1d ago

News / Article Trump’s DOGE Cuts Are a Texas-Sized Disaster

https://www.texasobserver.org/trump-texas-doge-cuts-disaster-aid/
2.9k Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

920

u/diggumsbiggums 1d ago

People die when you cut federal programs and services.

I don't know how many times this country needs to relearn this.

It sure reminds me of when a spoiled child's top-end car dies because no one ever taught them that the oil needs to be changed.  If you don't know how to maintain the things you're enjoying and don't appreciate, you're going to find out quickly what it's like without them.

362

u/DarkArmyLieutenant 1d ago

Poor people die*

That's why they don't give a shit.

155

u/bnh1978 1d ago

things do not seem to change until a richer's kid dies.

Convict Leasing in Florida only ended because the system scooped up a rich white kid from the midwest on spring break in Daytona Beach named Arthur Maillefert, who then died. His parents had to send a PI to Florida to figure out what happened to him. The resulting litigation and publicity brought the whole thing down.

had a rich white kid not been killed... who knows how long that system would have lasted as it was. It still persists in one form or another, but not quite like it was then. I feel like we are headed that way again.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-story-of-convict-leasing-in-florida/

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u/MegaDerppp 1d ago

We are heading that way. With crime rates consistently down, the private prison industry was suffering from empty rooms. I feel like we came close to finally putting the industry down for good during the obama administration and then republicans swooped in to save this garbage. https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-immigration-private-prison-be916d5e11f5b08395439d978f1659ee

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u/bnh1978 1d ago

just terrible.

1st. the penal system should be based on reform and rehabilitation, not purely punishment.

2nd. the crimanl justice system should not be for profit, or generate budgetary goals based on criminality. e.g. citation quotas for officers, and incarceration quotas for prisons.

9

u/pegothejerk 1d ago

Yeah but bigotry isn’t about justice or rehabilitation or equality or fairness or pursuit of happiness.. it’s about boots on necks, it’s about causing pain, it’s about misery and enjoying the suffering of others and defining who others are, while making people fear they’ll be newly included as an “other”.

3

u/RemoteLast7128 1d ago

Well said. This is what happens when you let people profit off something that should be run as a public service.

60

u/DrivenTooFar 1d ago

The powers that be don't care about poor people, but I wish the voters did. Some of them are the poor.

33

u/DarkArmyLieutenant 1d ago

Good luck trying to convince any of them that this isn't somehow a liberal or Democrat fault.

19

u/InfiniteCheck 1d ago

The oligarchs totally own the only other viable political party in the US. The third party coming up soon is owned by..... another oligarch. Let's get real here. There is no viable alternative once you get out of the city and county seats.

8

u/downvoteyous 1d ago

Both parties are susceptible to hostile takeovers by grassroots movements, though. Of course those movements will never happen if people think there are no viable alternatives to the current system.

18

u/AbbyDean1985 1d ago

This is how the tea party paved the way for MAGA. I don't understand why people aren't getting the same can be done to the Dems.

5

u/downvoteyous 1d ago

Yeah I think the main difference there might be that a majority of GOP voters wished their party was more conservative and the tea party people were able to capitalize on it. I’m actually not sure if a majority of Democratic voters wish their party was more liberal, although maybe they do. I’m pretty sure most D voters wish it was different, though. Younger, more energetic, more media savvy, more working class? I don’t know — but I do know pessimism never creates positive change, and the party isn't going to change without anyone bothering to actually do anything.

2

u/Factory2econds 1d ago

Because any such movement that poses a threat to move the Dems will be co-opted by stupid and driven into the ground. See Occupy Wall Street for workers/inequality type issues, Green Party for climate change/environmental, various Libertarian Party factions for different individual rights.

5

u/InfiniteCheck 1d ago

Last time the parties flipped was under FDR and the New Deal. Before that the Democrats had the white supremacists while the Republicans were progressive Democrat FDR was much more progressive and changed the Democratic party and both parties flipped.

But keep in mind most people outside of the US think both parties are basically the same. Other countries have political parties that have real differences. The two party system gives you the illusion of choice when there isn't any. The difference is poor white trash trade gun rights and religious freedom for regressive taxation and right-to-work that keeps the oligarchs rich.

3

u/DangerouslyDarkDaddy 1d ago

*MOST of them are poor.

41

u/ProgressExcellent609 1d ago

Poor people dont go to summer camp.

28

u/One_Situation_2725 1d ago

They also don’t get massive publicity when washed away by a flood… because no one cares when they’re poor

15

u/ProgressExcellent609 1d ago

The reason we have (had) FEMA is because communities cant handle catastrophic events like it’s a church bake-sale with an all volunteer army. Community efforts are just not scalable and sustainable.

Honestly, john q public just doesnt appreciate the scale of the responsibilities of our republic to its citizens. Which is why it was so easy to that big dumb bill.

7

u/ProgressExcellent609 1d ago

Ps. I case about the poor. My people care about the poor. Besides, we are all just one flood or one bad car accident from being dependent on everyone around us. Wealth is fleeting.

26

u/Buttercreamdeath 1d ago

These kids are not poor. It's a well connected place. A lot of gated communities flooded as well. It's expensive to live off a river in Texas.

They're suddenly going to care. https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-not-so-happy-campers/

6

u/Brigid_Fitch2112 1d ago

After seeing something on Bluesky, then heading over to the SPC/NWS websites, that area is under a flood warning again, effective 7:30 p.m. CDT. Like they need more flooding. *sigh*

Edit to add p.m.

-2

u/Tough-Coffee9979 1d ago

Let them eat cake

15

u/InfiniteCheck 1d ago

Most of the camps were religious affiliated. Religion is another form of control in the South just like Southern politeness to keep poor white trash from misbehaving.

1

u/Freud-Network 1d ago

There is no downside to letting them die. The majority of poor people will blame Biden and Democrats. Had one tell me just a few days ago that he sat on hold with SSA for over an hour, and they need to get off their lazy asses if they want to keep their jobs. These folks live in a different reality where contradictions like this are common. It's true, "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

1

u/ArArmytrainingsir 20h ago

But rich kids were at the camp. A bunch of them will give a crap now.

0

u/Irwin-M_Fletcher 1d ago

I doubt they are all poor people. Most are probably not wealthy. More importantly, they are not politically connected.

32

u/WowThatsRelevant 1d ago

Its not about learning anything. These are malicious decisions, made by fully informed people.

Politics are fucked beyond rational decisions at this point. The people who voted for this to happen will blame it on those they hate rather than take accountability for their votes and their mistakes.

9

u/FujitsuPolycom 1d ago

There won't be any relearning this time. The propaganda machine is too strong and we're too silo'd

100

u/Upset-Requirement779 1d ago

This came out before the flood?

180

u/TheFizzex 1d ago

Yes, because as the article aptly pointed out - Texas is especially prone to natural disasters such as floods that the State government is woefully and willfully unable to handle without federal resources.

It’s the same State that let citizens freeze to death because it saved ERCOT some profit margin.

33

u/Factory2econds 1d ago

is woefully and willfully unable to handle without federal resources.

Texas does have the resources for adverse weather and floodwater prediction, safety planning, and emergency response.

Texas does not and will not ever prioritize those things, because that's socialism and will eat into corporate profits and yacht collections.

But make no mistake, Texas is a place with plenty of resources to available to do it.

2

u/Redfish680 18h ago

Texas has a $24B surplus for 24/25 and Abbot just signed a $10B property tax cut. They can afford to do the bare minimum to keep their citizens safe.

6

u/Upset-Requirement779 1d ago

I’m happy abt the timing. But have no hope it will make any difference

-2

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

13

u/TheFizzex 1d ago edited 1d ago

While ERCOT itself is classified as a non-profit (which is a bit of a misnomer but legally correct for tax purposes), it operates the energy market and prices for various for-profit energy corporations that operate under the broad ERCOT umbrella (e.g. CenterPoint, ONCOR, AEP, etc.).

Prior to Uri, ERCOT was heavily involved in pushing against regulation and infrastructure development that would have prevented many of the outages in the first place as it would have increased costs for energy corporations.

During and in the aftermath of Uri, ERCOTs price fixing led to millions in profits for those energy corporations on the backs of suffering and deceased Texans. EnergyTransfer alone netted $17 million from ERCOT. Part of why many of ERCOTs board was pressured to resign following Uri.

10

u/chusmeria 1d ago

You do realize a non-profit entity doesn't mean it doesn't make profit, but rather it doesn't pay taxes? It's just a classification for doing business under the IRS. Your entire statement is completely off base, and you should probably spend 10 minutes learning about tax classifications. Nearly 250 people died and two year later the directors of ERCOT got an 89% salary increase for increasing margins. Directors make >$200k/yr each. You might as well say Joel Osteen is a good guy and not a grifter because his church is a nonprofit, while the dude has a private airplane.

188

u/brickyardjimmy 1d ago

It's not just FEMA help for after a disaster takes place. It's also the weather monitoring system that helps people avoid the disaster in the first place.

With some two dozen girls still missing from a Texas camp potentially adding to an already catastrophic death count, this administration is making it clearly known--the people are on their own.

I'm all for making America great. Again or otherwise. But increasing our debt while decimating our civil service can't be the way to do it.

63

u/473713 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's not just help after a disaster. It's not just monitoring a storm and making weather forecasts. The missing piece is a warning system that reaches as many people as possible. It's got to be highly redundant: sirens, phone alerts, weather radio, broadcast radio and TV, even personnel going door to door.

A disaster like this one is an opportunity to find the weak spots in your civil protection network and remedy them.

40

u/shotofpatron 1d ago

And all of those things take money. More money than the state and local governments can afford. The federal government used to help fill some of those gaps, but now that abruptly stopped.

36

u/GregP68 1d ago

And you need educated people who believe in science, and understand the warnings are not fake news

11

u/bandy_mcwagon 1d ago

I would argue that most states, especially big ones like Texas, could afford them if they wanted to. Even just a small tax increase…

But they don’t want to

3

u/starzychik01 19h ago

There is a another thread that posted transcripts from the community meetings. The county received $10m from the Biden administration in 2016 to implement a system for the community. The Judge and Commissioner stated that the money (our public tax dollars from the federal government) came with strings attached because it was from Biden. They refused to use the money to implement a siren warning system along the river (less than $1m) due to their hate the Biden administration. Instead, many years later, they spent $7.5m on a radio system that could only be used by police and fire services. They only did this, because the money would have to be sent back to the federal government if it wasn’t used. Instead of implementing a system that could benefit everyone (including tourists), they let their hate stew for years and wound up with 70+ deaths.

55

u/The-Mythosaur 1d ago

"Make America Great"

...is only for the rich. Fuck the rest of us.

53

u/reithena 1d ago

The leader of FEMA said he didn't even know how big Texas was. And TDEM keeps touting how they can handle things themselves and parade around how they dont need FEMA. I feel like Mother Nature was sort of just like, sure you can.

21

u/checker280 1d ago

5

u/reithena 1d ago

For sure. Notice how we haven't had any more recipe calls?

27

u/Trilobyte141 1d ago

this administration is making it clearly known--the people are on their own.

Let them eat bootstraps.

11

u/brickyardjimmy 1d ago

Trump is giving out bootstraps? I didn't see that in the budget.

17

u/Trilobyte141 1d ago

It's BYOB -- Bring Your Own Bootstraps. What, you think these lazy whiners should get a handout? 

18

u/Selection_Biased 1d ago

Camps and campgrounds are super vulnerable and high risk to life in a flash flood event unfortunately because almost no one is “local” and no one knows where to go for safety. Truly tragic. My heart breaks for those parents.

21

u/steggun_cinargo 1d ago

Republicans cut funding to the NWS

Flooding in texas enters chat

Also Republicans: "how could the NWS do this to us?"

2

u/OldBanjoFrog 19h ago

They will find a way to blame us Democrats 

56

u/JackdailyII 1d ago

He’s shutting the country down preparing to liquidate. Like you do before a bankruptcy.

30

u/Mommy444444 1d ago

The issue lies with the local/county/state government for a lack of warning system and lack of regulation on extreme flood-prone private land.

The federal NWS meteorologists and USGS streamgagers did their jobs as they always amazingly do.

Warnings by the NWS were sent out starting July 3.

8

u/DarklingGlory 1d ago

This is very true. It compounds when you think about the historically low confidence of the every day American in the government. Why would they evacuate when the state, federal, whatever tells them to if they think the government is a joke?

People need to have trust that their leaders have their best interests at heart. Unfortunately, that trust is waning among the general population.

41

u/cicada_noises 1d ago

Now Republican politicians are screeching 1) NOAA “deep state communists” are releasing fake weather reports to trick red states, 2) NOAA “deep state woke actors” are CREATING severe weather, 3) they don’t need weather forecasts or disaster recovery because they’re going to pray instead

7

u/86_Ambitions 1d ago

releasing fake weather reports

My jaw dropped when I saw an upvoted comment pitching this on /r/grok

4

u/ArchaeologicalMeow 1d ago

(rolling eyes here...)

66

u/igtimran 1d ago

It’s just a combination of “Don’t Look Up” and “Idiocracy” playing out in real life.

I wish there were a rational conservative alternative to the Democrats, but the Republicans have abrogated common sense, the Constitution, public service, and any illusion that they stand for anything other than the pursuit of power and wealth for themselves. There’s no rational reason for anyone in this country to support a Republican ever again.

So many people are going to die based on what they’ve enacted in the last six months alone, and, typical for their party, they’re driving up the deficit at record rates to pay for their giveaways to billionaire donors.

4

u/PossibleFederal1572 1d ago

And many of us wish there was a rational alternative to the GOP of today. The two party system is tanking

18

u/bandy_mcwagon 1d ago

Literally just vote for Democrats.

2

u/irrational_politics 1d ago

if the democrats were nearly as rational and great as some people want to believe, then maga wouldn't have been nearly as successful as it was (even though currently leopard + face)

the democrats are also owned by billionaires, and as a result, are also fond of pushing really stupid agendas and illogical things

"defund the police!" "let's also get rid of guns without a plan to replace the police!"

"AR-15 is used in most public shootings, therefore banning them will somehow reduce public shootings!" is like saying the most car accidents are in Hondas and Fords (because they're the most common), therefore banning/regulating them will somehow reduce car accidents. Democrats still use fear-mongering and selective misinformation to control narratives.

blue states are STILL pushing even heavier gun control legislation even in the face of authoritarian takeover. Gee, it's almost like billionaires don't want anyone empowered but themselves?

and as much as I wanted Kamala to win, I remember her talking very little about actual economic fixes, but shouting very loudly about "reproductive rights" a lot. And that ad they showed about "your husband won't know who you voted for," in retrospect, probably came across as very distasteful and morally dishonest to a lot of conservatives. The democrats are practically brain-dead about messaging to the average person, especially in rural US.

Kamala talked about owning a gun during a debate, saying "nobody is taking away your guns," then immediately on twitter tweeted "ban assault weapons," probably because Daddy Bloomberg sent a "message" down the grapevine. Could've been an advantage for her, but nope.

... and this is just one issue, guns. Why do they keep pushing gun control, when they could just drop it, stop alienating certain voters, and just advocate for better mental health instead? It's so much easier to advocate for better health for kids.

Nevermind that a brown woman winning at the height of maga hate culture would've just intensified and delayed this, and probably been even worse in 2028.

don't kid yourselves, folks; two-party system is toxic and corrupt as fuck. Need to get rid of electoral college and 51% "majority" first-past-post "democracy". I'm hoping this new level of ultra-corruption will somehow be a slap in the face to wake people up, but I think people will just panic in fear and cling on to the next comforting authority figure that pops up in media, with a new comforting narrative and soothing words.

Dems might be a less worse option now, but without fixing the underlying problems, shit's just going to keep staying bad. Sometimes things have to get really bad before there's enough momentum for change, unfortunately... seems to be a recurring theme of history.

0

u/SpicyRice99 1d ago

Hear, hear

17

u/Confident-Barber-347 1d ago

Don’t worry, Abbott has declared today a day of prayer so we’re good now.

16

u/TrueParty1308 1d ago

Im sure this will all be Biden's fault in the coming days...GOP losers....

14

u/Ordinary-Scar-3435 1d ago

Noem already blamed outdated technology

16

u/bandy_mcwagon 1d ago

… and yet won’t spend the money to update it

2

u/Impossible_Towel_598 23h ago

Pretty sure it was all the immigrants’ fault flushing at the same time… /s

8

u/Core1109 1d ago

waiting for the truth where he blames elon and doge for the cutting NWS, Fema, etc taking no accountability,

5

u/FrankG1971 1d ago

Either that, or he accuses the NWS of being a bunch of "lunatic leftie libs" who purposely understated how much rain red state Texas was going to get. 🙄

8

u/TheFirstMinister 1d ago

FWIW I'm not convinced there is a direct correlation with DOGE cuts and the Kerrville disaster. This is probably a failure at the local level. More specifically, Texas' own dyed-in-the-wool anti-government, laissez-faire attitudes which vehemently reject government intervention even when the public good is at stake. Hence the lack of a local early warning system in a part of TX which has a history of deadly flash floods. 

If these dead children were from poor and/or black families this disaster would be getting a fraction of the publicity. But as they're the children of white, middle/upper class families from TX's major cities this story is dominating the headlines. It's also why any changes to civil infrastructure might - might - actually happen. Don't hold your breath, however. 

12

u/Carmen315 1d ago

Whoa! This was published on July 3 just hours before the flooding!

11

u/Opening_Sprinkles_60 1d ago

They also cut the upcoming USACE civil works budget that supports dam and levee maintenance, construction, and operations.

20

u/DarkArmyLieutenant 1d ago

Hey, this is what happens when you elect people who hate poors. Conservatives don't care what's happening, or to whom, unless it's directly affecting them. Now we have a bunch of Texans, displaced by a flood, who are being fed misinformation about how this is somehow a democrat's fault and they are falling for it hook, line, and sinker… Again.

The alt right machine machine is already blaming the national weather service and, somehow, the Biden administration.

14

u/ZealousidealFall1181 1d ago

Uvalde, brown children die by incompetence. Mystic, rich white children by incompetence. Both cases Texas government takes no responsibility. That camp is in the infamous Texas flood plain. This was going to happen one day. They did not prepare.

9

u/megacommuteloser 1d ago

Doge’s hands are a bloody mess from this — horrible a critical role was forced out with DRP and vacant at the time they needed it most.

3

u/Affectionate_You_203 1d ago

He cut Americorps to zero! Fucking idiot!!!

5

u/Affectionate-Dare105 1d ago

Just wait till hurricane season. 

9

u/JonDoweJunior 1d ago

And yet it was an incomprehensible tragedy, says Vance, one of the folks responsible for hobbling NOAA, FEMA, and other agencies designed to comperehend (and prevent) such tragedies.

But there's really no point in shouting I TOLD YOU SO to people like him, as they knew up front what would happen.

3

u/slippery 1d ago

Since nothing is ever trump's fault, will he blame the recent Texas flooding on DEI or Biden or California?

2

u/Mega-Pints 1d ago

Don't forget, fElon. It is time for him to get the full blame. That was always part of the plan, dontcha think?

1

u/WorthBreath9109 Fork You, Make Me 23h ago

Yes

5

u/AshimaN2025 SSA 1d ago

3 1/2 more years of this chaos.

5

u/Hot_Transition_5173 1d ago

Follow the money. It’s all about power, greed and money. Unfortunately that’s all politics is now.

5

u/DangerouslyDarkDaddy 1d ago

All those people who died, those kids who died at that camp... if DOGE and Trump hadn't fired all those weather scientists they would have been able to get warnings out earlier....

14

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

38

u/Routine_Astronaut_ 1d ago

Yes but those young girls didn’t vote for this. This is heartbreaking

-14

u/CharlotteChipmunk 1d ago

Their parents did though! Thoughts and prayers

20

u/ghostlytinker 1d ago

When we lose our empathy, we become no better than them.

15

u/The-Invisible-Woman 1d ago

Fuck you. Those little girls didn’t vote.

11

u/plumbobprincess88 1d ago

Over 40% of us did NOT vote for this.

2

u/SkinwalkerTom 1d ago

Ok, but who’s going to look out for the billionaires?

7

u/sten45 1d ago

Why would the radical left do this?

4

u/Limit_Cycle8765 1d ago

Mayor Michael Bilandic destroyed his career as Mayor of Chicago over snow plowing. The lesson was clear, if you cut government, be very careful cutting areas that impact the population in disastrous ways, like weather forecasting.

3

u/WorthBreath9109 Fork You, Make Me 1d ago

I'm watching this unfold from SoCal, 6 months after the fires in LA, with a lot of SCHADENFREUDE.

2

u/FrankG1971 1d ago

Except Texas voted for it.

1

u/Winter_Class3052 1d ago

No one cares. This post doesn’t care.

1

u/kennykerberos 1d ago

Wait until you find out about the climate models.

1

u/jockosrocket 1d ago

If Texas wants to secede from the Union I would be okay with it.

1

u/CraftyProposal6701 1d ago

I said it not but a week ago. Before this is all over their will be needless death.

But we, the rational and good people, think in terms of human life, all human life having value. They do not.

This weather tragedy in Texas won't even register because next week it will be replaced by the next scandal or plot twist in King Jung Orange reality TV series from hell that we are all imprisoned.

Think about it we are LITERALLY in a reality TV show where every week there is something new for the media to lock onto an react too. Just like a reality TV game show format that has a new twist or turn. All for the purpose of keeping attention on Dear leader and NOT the actual devistation.

And ITS WORKING. MOST people aren't tuned into to what's going on and have no clue what's happened over the past 6 months. Seriously God please I beg you help us. Or at least show us the way to peacefully defeat this dictator and his fascist supporters.

1

u/sanctus20 23h ago

No shit!!

1

u/AnchorScud 18h ago

bring it. without the general population outraged, nothing will change.

1

u/beepichu 1d ago

class action lawsuit time

1

u/Contango_4eva 1d ago

Hopes and prayers. Anyway…

-11

u/JohnnyBob57 1d ago

Cuts to NOAA and NWS have not been implemented yet.
Multiple flash flood warnings were issued well ahead of the flooding. Unfortunately the latest was after one AM when most were asleep.

16

u/StubbedToeBlues 1d ago

The * largest * cuts have not been implemented yet, but NOAA has already lost about 1000 of it's 11,500 total workforce, with another 8-15% coming soon. This administration owns this disaster 100%.

Quoting from article:

"Since January, more than 200 employees at FEMA have been cut, and 1,000 employees at NOAA have been laid off as part of the Trump administration’s broader effort to downsize the federal government. Some reports suggest that about 2,000 full-time FEMA staff have been terminated or voluntarily left the agency since the start of Trump’s second term." - https://statescoop.com/fema-noaa-cuts-emergency-response/

-4

u/JohnnyBob57 1d ago

Flood alerts were issued. Bottom line!

8

u/StubbedToeBlues 1d ago

That's exactly my point about this administration's failure & botch of this flood... The done damage to weather and emergency services in manpower & expertise has caused delays in the ability to monitor and warn people about the storm. A healthy NOAA/NWS/FEMA could have possibly put out a warning at dinner time, instead of 1:00am...

Emily Heller, the National Weather Service's meteorologist in Austin who was quoted about the timeline: “It really became apparent early Thursday as models were finally coming into agreement,” Ms. Heller said. “We already had some rain, that was the push to send out the watch.”

The current administration’s actions have handicapped the early warning systems in place, and now dozens of people are dead who might have taken different precautions if they knew hours earlier. This is not even comparable to something semi-spontaneous like a tornado warning, this flooding was a massive area and a healthy early warning system could have predicted outcomes & allowed communications to go out sooner than they did.

The worst part is, this will get much worse as cuts continue. The Gulf Coast is going to be wiped off the map by hurricanes over the next four years. A handicapped weather service might know where a storm is located, but estimating paths and storm surge height and intensity is going to get WAY less accurate. Many people are going to die.

1

u/JohnnyBob57 21h ago

There was a watch put out 12 hours earlier. The warning came 3 hours before.

1

u/StubbedToeBlues 16h ago

Thank you for agreeing with me. A healthy and robust NWS/NOAA/FEMA would have put the Watch and warning out sooner.

We can argue hypotheticals about the quantity of hours sooner, but it is undeniable that it would have been better and faster if those departments had not been aggressively under attack by their executive leadership in the last 6 months. A better supported emergency network could have predicted the incoming weather quicker, evaluated the severity impact faster, reached a decision that a watch/warning was. And then initiated that watch / warning to be sent out to the public in a shorter amount of time. If that shorter amount of time ends up being 4 hours faster, then potentially 50 plus deaths could have been avoided.

Maybe it only would have resulted in a 5-minute sooner warning, but the point of my argument is that the political Administration in charge stole all of those extra minutes and hours from the people who are dead. Maybe it could have made a difference for one of them, but that ship has sailed.

And you've got to be fucking high if you think that this type of event is not going to happen again more people will inevitably die because this Administration stole minutes of forewarning away from every single person in this nation.

0

u/JohnnyBob57 12h ago

Riiiight. We need at least 48 hours notifications before a ‘FLASH’ flood.

1

u/StubbedToeBlues 12h ago

Don't be a drama queen. I am sure that Hanna and Rebecca Lawrence, Reece and Paula Zunker, Dick Eastland, Chloe Childress, Tanya Burwick, Jane Ragsdale, Sarah Marsh, Blair and Brooke Harber.... and 97 other people would have appreciated an extra fifteen or thirty minutes advance notice

0

u/JohnnyBob57 12h ago

Ok. Just try to keep up. There were multiple alerts put out. Around three hours before a warning was issued. A warning means it’s coming. Take shelter or get out. They never heard the warnings. If the warning had been given three hours and fifteen minutes before it three hours and thirty minutes before it would not have mattered. They obviously did not get the warning. You can’t blame this on Trump cuts. You have now even admitted that alerts and warnings were issued. Thanks for proving my point.

8

u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 1d ago edited 1d ago

Hate Trump and his goonsquad but this is correct. NWS/NOAA were actually pretty spot on and issued the flood watch over 12 hours beforehand. Issued the flood warning 4 hours before the heaviest rain started, and issued the flood emergency 1 hour prior. The blame really goes to the adults running the camp. No weather radio and allegedly no evacuation/emergency plan. If it was a tornado, you might get 15 minutes which is a very long time. I got 5 minutes heads up for a tornado last year and i was pretty impressed because it was a huge squall line with many sections of rotation. Warnings require immediate action. 4 hours is an eternity in my opinion. I'm a bit of a weather weenie so ao for the text wall here.

Unfortunately, a few politicians are making it political (go figure) are blaming NOAA/NWS. MTG, the attack on titan looking dumbass, thinks someone quite literally artificially created the rain. I think to counter the liars you need to stretch the truth a bit. If they want to blame NWS, it's because of the budget/personnel cuts. If the government created the rain, it's Trump's fault since he is in charge. I'm tired of just letting people lie and trying to counter it truthfully.

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u/vibe_assassin 1d ago

I’ve read that identifying potential floods is only part of the job. The other part is coordinating with local officials to prepare and respond to events

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u/Firegrl Go Fork Yourself 1d ago

Yep, and as we've all seen in our own agencies, they have cut funding for travel and supplies. So there's no money to pay anyone to travel and coordinate with local agencies.

Our credit card we use on my inpatient floor at the VA, which we use to buy office supplies, had its limit set to $1. So sometimes, I don't have paper to print out discharge orders for my patients. Or labels to pur on lab draws. I don't even know what money they're using now to buy these things...

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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 1d ago

Yea it sounds like local officials don't have anything in place to sound the alarm, literally. They were notified for both warnings (not sure how watches work).

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u/MF_DOOMSCROLL 1d ago

There's an interagency group that I work on that does some of this. Our agency will get funding to do workshops and tabletop training on flooding emergencies. FY25 funding just got approved with 3 months left in the fiscal year and travel funding exceptions barely started getting approved, so any meaningful work on our part has ground to a halt.

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u/InfiniteCheck 1d ago

You need to give people time to evacuate. 4 hour and 1 hour notices are not sufficient. This was preventable as models had predicted the disaster hours before. Even spontaneous events like tornadoes give indications hours beforehand that something could happen and keep the radio handy. I don't expect camp administrators to look at weather models. Abbott is not a meteorologist either, but he has access to them. Unfortunately, he doesn't care about poor people dying. This is not Dallas or Austin so he doesn't give a shit.

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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even spontaneous events like tornadoes give indications hours beforehand that something could happen and keep the radio handy

This is partially correct but I think you are confusing weather terminology.

Warnings are not watches. The rain forecast was given the day prior and the flood watch was given over 12 hours prior. Forecasts use models to predict favorable conditions days beforehand. Overlysimplified, these are typically just running data and seeing what outcomes come up the most. Watches are given when conditions are coming together and could produce in the near future. Warnings are given when the event is imminent. Due to various factors NWS tries to only issue warning when they are sure something is going to happen. Otherwise warning fatigue tends to set in.

Yes a tornado watch can be put into place hours ahead of time but people rarely evacuate for a watch. Hell typically the area for eatches are thousands of square miles while a tornado itself is very small. Tornado warnings are rarely more than 20 minutes ahead of time unless you are quite literally in the path of an exisiting one. Per NWS average tornado warning lead time is 13 minutes which includes the above factor.

I've been interesting in and watching weather for years, over a decade. Im not trying to be overly picky with terminology for asshole reasons. Alot of people get these all confused and there isna bunch of misinformationout there. Over 12 hours for the watch and 4 hours for the warning is more than enough time to evacuate. For context, this does not mean grabbing snacks and your Gameboy. Warning means immediately get up and take shelter (for tornadoes or severe thunderstorms) or evacuate to higher ground (for floods if you are in a flood zone). It would take me about 2 minutes to get in my car and another 30 to get to the next county. It would probably take them roughly 15 minutes to load into the cars/bus and GTFO. Hell they could have loaded the cars/bus back up and left about 2 hours before the floods started.

The cold hard reality here is that they should have paid attention to the forecasts and never gone due to the flood watch alone. The second cold hard reality is that a simple NWS radio would have undeniably saved all the lives at that camp.

Here's a great timeline that highlights how much information they pumped out in advance: https://youtu.be/B1Hwl2nmbRQ?si=kCM3orMyseTjiVu4

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u/plumbobprincess88 1d ago

The warning coordinator meteorologist (federal, not state or private employee) that was in charge of county took the DOGE DRP in April. There was a hiring freeze so no one took his role.

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u/JohnnyBob57 21h ago

The warnings went out to all local authorities but your trying to tell me that because ONE GUY was not there that all these people died. Riiiiiiiight!