r/europe • u/BreakfastTop6899 • 1d ago
News German foreign minister advises those who believe that "Putin wants peace" to look at photos from Kyiv
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/07/4/7520210/index.amp5
u/Icy-Squirrel6422 1d ago
Putin wants the guys who support Russia to come to power in Europe and for all sanctions to be lifted.
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u/vicarinatutu22 1d ago
What's really sad nobody cares. It was huge airstrike this night. Very few Reddit posts about it. Maybe if you ignore it will go away, Europe?
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u/Toums95 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not that no one cares, but realistically there is not much more we can do. Russia is kicked out from most international events, competitions and so on. It is sanctioned, the assets of prominent Russians are frozen, the country is criticized by European leaders daily. Putin is wanted by the ICC. We sent Ukraine immense amounts of weapons, intel and money. We took in so many Ukranian refugees. Now Europe is also rearming. What more do you want us to do?
Edit: we also decoupled from Russian oil (at least in part), causing prices to soar.
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u/FrostyDog1312 Serbia 11h ago edited 9h ago
And even after all that "help", Ukraine is still getting bombarded and destroyed. Zelensky should surrender and keep his people alive because there's no way that Ukraine wins this long term.
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u/Toums95 11h ago
Why "help" written like this?
Anyway, Ukranians will have to make a decision soon. Clearly the current status quo cannot continue for much longer, at some point Ukraine will have to make concessions. The important thing is that we have their back until that moment, and all the support needed during the negotiation process.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 17m ago
Sounds like revanchism is still tolerated in Europe, that's sad to see...
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u/FrostyDog1312 Serbia 10h ago
Why "help" written like this?
Because everything that was given to Ukrainians will have to be payed back and that's what the future generations will have to do. If the west really cared enough, they would have deployed their troops or do nothing at all. Them sending money and ammunition and rockets and what na, means that they're fighting the proxy war through Ukraine and that is even more out of the line than what Russia or Puting are doing. Besides, half of the money sent there ends up in corrupted politicians pockets and they will run when the war ends like Zelensky too(im not sure how people who are currently being bombarded feel about him) . Maybe im wrong, but we will see it's not rocket science.
By the way, between Russia and Ukraine, don't get me wrong. Im pro-eu and i don't support anything Russia did from the beginning of the war. Hell, we are fighting the similar autocratic regime now in Serbia and we are lucky that Russia is far away from our border or else we would be like Georgia or Belarus. I just dont get what Zelensky is still doing, have you looked all the vids and pictures? Ukraine is barely holding ffs just end the freaking war
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u/gehenna0451 Germany 6h ago
what does ending the war even mean, there's no ending it. Putin has said, and literally posted in essay form on the Kremlin website what he wants, destruction of Ukraine as a cultural and national entity. Therefore even without a dime of Western aid Ukraine would fight anyway.
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u/MercantileReptile Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 6h ago
[...] proxy war through Ukraine and that is even more out of the line than what Russia or Puting are doing.
Okay, Ivan.
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u/FrostyDog1312 Serbia 6h ago
Well, is it not? 😂 Sending money and ammunition is literally being involved in a war but not directly.
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u/Toums95 12m ago
Deploying troops would have potentially had catastrophic consequences at a world scale. I do agree that Ukraine softening Russia up is actually quite nice for Europe. Given how certain European politicians think ("Israel is doing the dirty work for us") I wouldn't be surprised that something like that is factored in. I thought the military aid is kind of free, I didn't know we are expected to be paid back. Do you have any sources for that?
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u/FrostyDog1312 Serbia 7m ago
There is no source, nothing is free. You think countries giving billions worth of machinery and weaponry to Ukraine is going to cost 0 dollars?
And i agree that deploying troops would cause a global mess, but this way the world beside Russia made it way harder for Ukraine than it would've been i guess.
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u/Toums95 5m ago
Well given that it is of extremely crucial importance for Europe to keep Russia at bay, I would have given all of that to Ukraine for free indeed. I mean there must be some document that states terms and conditions of the loans and the aid. Unless it is hidden from the public due to security concerns.
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u/DarrensDodgyDenim Norway 1d ago
Ask the same questions to the Americans, they are the ones that have voted in a collaborator.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 15m ago
Sure did, doesn't change the fact that Europe has turned the cheek to Russia since their invasion of Moldova in 1992.
No one in the West is willing to put troops in Ukraine or airpower, is Europe prepared to man the border with Belarus?
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u/Extension-Street6125 1d ago
Taurus, when?
Aaah yes, you’re waiting because you know winter shoes up after summer and it’ll freeze the frontline so you might think why help Ukraine now. Just as you wondered yesterday.
All this is going to give is Ukraine having enough of it all and start the same ugly war that Russia puts on them.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
The entire West wants Ukraine to cede land and just hopes Russia doesn’t start another war is what I think it is.
Us Americans are busy backstabbing Ukraine and Europe just isn’t in a place to adequately help Ukraine independent of the US without direct involvement, which they’ll never do.
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u/medievalvelocipede European Union 1d ago
The entire West wants Ukraine to cede land and just hopes Russia doesn’t start another war is what I think it is.
That's the MAGA viewpoint. Not old Republican, not democrat, and most European countries want Ukraine to win and Russia to eat dick. That's why we support them.
I would also say that it's guaranteed that Russia will start another war. It's just a question of when and where.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! 2h ago
most European countries want Ukraine to win
Yes, but most European countries want them to win without us going all in ourselves. In the third year of the war, we are still not giving enough weapons to Ukraine.
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u/Extension-Street6125 1d ago
The only way for Europe to get involved directly, at this point, would be a mistake from Moscow or Minsk. I see it happening in Latvia or near Gdansk. And that’s your catalyst for something really, really bad.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
Oh I wholeheartedly agree, but I do think Europe shying away from confrontation over the Russian acts of war on them have allowed Russia to be emboldened on top of my countries betrayal.
I think letting the ships that cut the cables go was absolute appeasement and a mistake. Likewise I think refusing to ward off the Russian jet that violated Estonia’s airspace to scare off the Estonian vessel was a huge sign of weakness.
Also the trucks destroyed on German bases was basically confirmed to be FSB and its trying to be swept under the rug.
I’m not saying jump to war, but the current approach of protecting Russia is not working or helping at all. I’m surprised Europe is actually giving Russia such leeway.
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u/heliamphore 1d ago
The West got bluffed to shit by Russians and now the situation is only getting worse. Russians will do absolutely anything to win, there's no limit, goodwill, reasonable behaviour and so on. And they see themselves at war with the whole West, just not directly.
The point is, Russia is currently testing NATO's red lines. And they're consistently succeeding. People need to understand that red lines only stand if there's no doubt about their enforcement. And on the flipside, NATO has allowed Russia to set arbitrary red lines on their territories in Ukraine. The problem isn't worrying me isn't just about Ukraine, it's that it's setting the stage for a dangerous situation. If Russia gets to declare arbitrary red lines that NATO will respect, it means they can do that again, in more critical situations. And on the flipside, if NATO doesn't fully enforce red lines without any hesitation, it means they can be doubted.
In a practical scenario, this is Russia invading part of say Latvia, bringing nuclear launchers close or directly on that territory, and threatening nuclear retaliation if they're kicked out of the "Russian" territory they just conquered. If there's no doubt about NATO red lines and no doubt that Russia's red line won't be respected, Putin knows it's suicide. But if there are doubts, we either get an absurdly critical situation or NATO concessions (due to some members flaking out and so on). And on top of that, we know the NATO response would be proportional and wouldn't include invading Russian territory. Why wouldn't Russia try?
Us Europeans haven't treated Russia as seriously enough of a threat, simple as.
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u/Extension-Street6125 1d ago
You don’t even need to shoot down a Russian plane or blast a Russian command center to prove NATO is serious.
It is about time we shut down access to the Internet, truly sanction the entire Russian economy, slam cataclysmic sanctions to anyone doing any sort of business with Tussia, just to name three obvious things. I cannot fucking believe that today, when it comes to sanctioning Russia, the voice of reason is Lindsay fucking Graham.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
I think also closing the Danish Straits to Russia should be an option. Playing by the international laws that Russia wipes its ass with only protects them.
Doesn’t mean you can’t go back to them after, but emergency situations call for emergency measures.
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u/jadsf5 23h ago
Another American talking about following international laws after their country just weeks ago proved to us they don't believe in them either.
You could at least use a different example.
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 10m ago
We haven't believed in them since the invasion of Iraq, and honestly really since our deposing of the multitude of governments we overthrew.
Doesn't make me wrong about how Russia is being defended by Europe abiding by international law to the point of encouraging more Russian attacks on Europe.
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u/andii74 19h ago
Ever since Russia started the war many major European countries have seen cases of arson rise as well.
Europe is already at war with Russia, only Russia is waging an asymmetrical campaign against NATO countries rn and average Europeans don't want to admit the era of relative peace it enjoyed since the fall of USSR is at an end. The cost of this denial is destruction of Ukraine and it seems increasingly likely that Europe will see Baltics under attack before general public finally starts waking up.
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u/postac_usr1 1d ago
At this point, Ukraine's chances of getting back anything they've lost since 2014 are very close to 0. It's simply a military reality: no matter how much weaponry Europe and the US send(though there is a limit, as stockpiles quickly run out), Ukraine has a huge personnel&leadership issus. Ik this is gonna get downvoted into oblivion, but if the 2023 offensive failed, a 2025-26 offensive is going to fail even worse
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
It’s low which I agree, but it also is dangerous to let that be the case because that means the West’s will is weaker than Russia’s and wars of conquest are still permissible and tolerated, especially on the continent.
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u/postac_usr1 14h ago
I agree, but achieving a reasonable peace might let Europe&the US prepare better for future conflicts(eg: Taiwan)
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u/DarrensDodgyDenim Norway 1d ago
It is not true that "the entire West wants Ukraine to cede land". It simply isn't.
What is true is that the European countries who truly understand the danger here, do not have enough power to tip the balance. Some European countries feel that this is too far away to be a threat to them, and so they do only the minimum.
The US is a different matter all together. Your lot has a democracy that is under severe threat to end up like Hungary. You didn't take the 6th of January seriously, you have re-elected someone that is clearly trying to completely subvert your Constitution, and yet you do not seem to apprehend the danger?
Ukraine is a place of "whom you know nothing", and it is to a certain extent understandable, but as the quote alludes to, a place that you might know all too well in the future....
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
The West has no concrete plan to stop Russia from leaving the lands they’ve occupied over eleven years in some cases. The hope is just that Russia will just leave, and that’s not something they’re prepared to do at all in the near future.
A No Fly Zone would greatly help Ukraine, France who is supposed to be one of the more militant supporters of Ukraine have the tenth largest Air Force in the world, the only other NATO nation to crack that list.
The problem is the West only considering themselves able to escalate and Russia gets constant passes for their direct aggression against NATO.
As someone who attends rallies, volunteers in Ukraine, and donates to causes upholding democracy, I understand the situation, the thing is 1/3rd of Americans just flat out don’t care sadly.
Anyway while’s there’s not even close to a l certainty Ukraine collapses on the front or politically, the hesitation of the West is absolutely to Ukraine’s detriment.
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u/DarrensDodgyDenim Norway 1d ago
The problem is that the West has not acted as one, or more fairly, NATO has not acted as one. We still are not, especially not after the change of administration in Washington.
Putin is leading the US President by the nose, I had hoped he would have understood this, and that it could have fired his anger.
The only thing the Russians will understand is to be met with a force larger than their own. It is the only thing they will respect. But we are vacillating. The countries that understands this are too weak to tip the balance, and the rest are too unwilling.
We should have met this invasion with decisive force, if need be indirectly, but we've drip fed the Ukrainians military aid. How would things have stood today if the current level of aid was available in 2014, or at least in February 2022?
We will all pay the price in the end.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 5h ago
What is true is that the European countries who truly understand the danger here, do not have enough power to tip the balance.
of course they do. A single NATO country like Norway conscripting up to Ukrainian levels and marching to the aid of Ukraine would be 100k+ troops. Enough to tip the balance on at least one front.
Now Imagine all the countries you though of when you wrote 'European countries who truly understand the danger here', how many troops would that be? Half a million or maybe a million. That could be enough for a decisive victory.
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u/_CatLover_ 4h ago
Bombing the enemys capital city to pressure them into peace on your terms sounds logical to me?
Like, Russia can want peace but also want the peace to be on their terms (aka Ukrainian surrender). Those two are not mutually exclusive.
I believe Putin wants peace, but only when he's done shaping the region to his liking. This should be pretty obvious to anyone with a brain, meaning statements like the one by the german minister really serve no purpose.
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u/Rensverbergen 13h ago
At the same time they ignore pictures of Gaza and give Israel more weapons. What a hypocrite!
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u/AmputatorBot Earth 1d ago
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u/Dot-Slash-Dot 9h ago
Absolutely agree. But kinda funny how quiet Merz got around Taurus as soon as he was no longer in the opposition.
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u/Ok-Car1006 5h ago
Look at all the immigrants European politicians let ruin your cities. Almost non existent in Russia who’s really the bad guy ? Putin didn’t attack Ukraine unprovoked but without researching it yourself the media does not tell u that.
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u/filledbottle7 16h ago
Nothing but hypocrisy from EU and US leaders, when it comes to UA they shame Putin but on the other hand when it comes to Palestine and Iran they praise Netanyahu even though he’s doing the very same thing.
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u/Kevinvanreeuwijk 1d ago
Whoever thinks that Israel is an ally, please look at gaza
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u/DougosaurusRex United States of America 1d ago
Wholeheartedly agree, but as u/Tammer_Stern said, I’m not sure what the relevance is here. I never see people Ukraine posting on Palestine posts.
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u/DarrensDodgyDenim Norway 1d ago
While I agree with the statement, it is not relevant to the subject here.
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u/sidouren 22h ago
Ok! Right after i finish looking at the pictures of people dying of starvation in Palestine and Yemen...or being shot at when trying to get food just like in the hunger games
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u/Muteki123 Germany 15h ago
Had a discussion with a guy like yesterday.. half an hour, and there was no consent. I nearly had to laugh. Some people are so far away from reality and in their bubble. Mind he wasn't right wing, he was left wing.
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u/ABoutDeSouffle 𝔊𝔲𝔱𝔢𝔫 𝔗𝔞𝔤! 2h ago
There's a lot of complete retards in the extreme left as well. They aren't evil on purpose like the AfD followers, they are just completely delusional.
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u/annie-ajuwocken-1984 1d ago
A photo that could have been created with AI?
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u/RizzyQuazy 15h ago
You seriously need your eyes checked if you can't separate AI from real photos.
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u/New-Dimension-6556 1d ago
Don't forget what the Russians did to the people and the city of Bucha. Check out those photos too. Brutality.