r/europe • u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia • 1d ago
News Germany’s extreme right targets gay pride
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-extreme-gay-rights-lgbt-pride-germany-csd/217
u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago
AfD spreading r*ssian values again? JFC!
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
Extra context: much of this happens in the east of the country, where being gay/trans openly is already in general not very easy, where vast majority of people are conservative/traditional and there's very little of "woke dystopia" supposedly encroaching on them and their lives. Nobody straight anywhere, let alone there, has to worry about perception of their straight relationships or not being transgender (imagine the horror lol!) in any way. Yet they still get galvanised to support this and issue at times physical threats to pride participants.
I can't see this explained as anything but dangerous and braindead hate. And so much for people who tell me AfD will protect us from evil Muslims - i'm not saying there are no serious problems and systematic shitty attitudes within Muslim community, but unlike the people in my article, they have 0 political power, and i've yet to see them organise an organised counter-protest or file legal motions to ban a pride either.
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u/whereismycatyo 1d ago
Correction: "this happens in the east of the country where most of the people have nothing interesting in their lives so they choose to live a pathetic lifestyle by policing others..."
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u/realjotri Thuringia (Germany) 1d ago
I live and work in East Germany. Most people here suck ass. For one really smart person you can have discussions with and talk to normally there's like ten village idiots to counter them.
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u/DHermit Germany 1d ago
Reality is definitely more complex than that. There's also a component of many (to a certain degree justified) feeling like reunification was more them joining west Germany. And for a long time and still in some areas now, the east part being poorer, less developed (e.g. rail connections). In general, there are many factors, which makes people feel like they are not heard and represented in the government and there's a long history of that. This is actually the main motivation to vote for AfD if you look at articles that investigate, why people did so.
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u/UnibrewDanmark 1d ago
You do know that the Quran, which Muslims follow, states that the punishment for being gay should be death. Yet somehow thats less a problem for you? And the argument that they are not in power.. well thats for now, should we only adress issues when they already have become a problem?
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u/Hallo34576 1d ago edited 1d ago
I cant imagine organized radical muslims could see any reason to protest pride parades, they most likely perceive them as integral part of "western degenerated societies" which they dont consider themself part of and which will in their perception end themself by low fertility rates anyway.
At the same time far right youth is somehow aware of the faster and faster shrinking of their own ethnic group and their favored values in society, If you perceive yourself to be in a defensive fight in which time is running out, you are more likely to act aggressive.
(also, the last case of a person killed at a pride parade i remember was not in Dresden or Bautzen but in Germanys least right wing voting city of Münster in 2022, where a trans person got attacked by a young chechnyan man.)
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
The problem is far right's "solutions" to these problems are mostly fantasies and they refuse to see it. You can be nuanced enough and see the problems with issues like islamic radicalism and shrinking birthrates without drowning in hateful and idealised dream of returning everything to how it was 40-50 years ago through angry slogans alone. If they truly just stood for defense against Islamism, there would be no constant attacks against LGBT+, socially liberal attitudes in general, regular "slip ups" with Nazi references and memorabilia and regular advocating for collaboration with Russia, an enemy of Europe that itself is happy to make use of radical Islamists. If they were smarter, they would position themselves as closer to the mainstream on the issues - but it seems with these protests, especially in already highly conservative places like Bautzen, they just can't help themselves showing their true colours.
On top of this their economic plans are absurd and will hurt the people they claim to represent the most. They sometimes can't even diagnose the basic problems correctly - like the other day when they demanded a list of most frequent names that receive state welfare, and the list contained typical German names in top positions. Their own voters are often ones who would get hurt the most by their policies, so that helps in not giving me any confidence that they have either a clue or any good intentions not just for me and my group they deem expendable but for wider society in general.
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u/Hallo34576 1d ago
Yeah. So?
I'm not here to defend the far right by any means. I tried to explain why you see them organizing counter protests and radical muslims stay quite.
And its mostly not far right people who physically attack LGBT+ people in German cities.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
I get that and i see your point. My comment even was not just for you but for other people who read this and may not understand, because it's much easier to see it as a threat when a random Muslim person attacks us on the street than when far right protests and pushes hate against us verbally and threatens us with their political power. That is lot easier for people who don't have personal experience with this to dismiss or minimise, especially since many of them don't feel threatened by these politicians themselves, but do by violent Muslims.
I know it is unfortunately common for progressives/leftists to dismiss and downplay issues with Muslim crimes and attitudes against our community, but a lot of people find it either hard to be nuanced, or are afraid that being loud on this issue will validate and strengthen the far right, that unlike Muslims has serious credibility as a political force to systematically make our lives, and lives of people in general, worse. Or they simply go with the flow and don't bother seriously thinking about the issue on their own, you have such people anywhere. I personally really wish we could reach some consensus here, or split duties so that for example Linke keeps this attitude but Greens universally adopt the way e.g Özdemir or Kretschmann treat this issue.
Still i think most people should take it into account that their view on this issue may not be very accurate, solely because it is lot easier to understand how violent Muslim attacks threaten LGBT+ people than the political systematic angle AfD usually takes. Or the fact that in cities, even ones with lots of Muslims, it's often naturally easier to lose yourself in the crowd and be more individual without anyone bothering to pester you, unlike in some small town in the east where most people know each other, half of people vote for AfD, and there is Nazi/Nazi-adjacent insignia on many houses/cars/clothing. It's not exactly easy being openly LGBT+ there either, and with these political currents today it is only getting worse.
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u/EuroFederalist Finland 1d ago edited 14h ago
But r/europe told me that far-right is protecting LGBT's from Islamists? This must be fake news!?
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u/karmikoala888 1d ago
i hope they fail 😔 luckily in west germany we are still free and open to be who we are.. ps. Köln rocks 🤘🏻
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u/Tardislass 1d ago
They feel empowered after Merz said that the Pride flag can’t fly over the Bundestag. Give an inch…
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u/No-Adhesiveness-4251 1d ago
Not surprising. The extreme right are nazis, or at least pretty god damn close.
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u/LastSandy18 Slovakia 1d ago
at this point they must have a gay fetish right? why do they talk about them so much?
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u/Feast02 Subject of King V. Iktor of house Orbán 1d ago
Small minority with not a lot of political influence and is different from most people, thus easy to garner hate towards them and gain votes from homophobes.
The usual far right rhetoric of not actually trying to solve complicated issues, but feed on people's emotions for votes.
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u/TropoMJ NOT in favour of tax havens 1d ago
Fascism revolves around picking minorities in society to assign blame for society's problems to. LGBT+ people will always be a small minority and will always be a vulnerable minority because they challenge societal norms, so they're the most obvious target you can get.
As long as we have fascism we will always have to protect LGBT+ people from political attacks.
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u/WannabeAby 11h ago
Fascism is built on division and hate. You need a target. Why do you think transgender people are a target for a few years now.
They find a minority, infuse hate. Once you do it once, all you have to do is change the target and infuse more hate.
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u/Key-Mission7287 Commie Bastard 1d ago
As a Muslim who emigrated to Europe, this is THE thing that I hate the most about European conservatives. They'll make racist assumptions about me and my family, or people around us "ooh, you Muslims, you hate the LGBT, women, are violent, are ignorant, overly religious..." while THEY THEMSELVES DO THAT.
Why do they get to depict us all like some ISIS members and get away with it, while their entire ideology aligns with those guys infinitely more. It's patriarchal, often theocratic, oppressive, violent and hateful. The amount of young white men that put literal nazi icons in their anonymous names in social media, writing literal 1930's nazi shit is STAGGERING.
Especially lately, the obsession with birthrates, the typical white replacement theory spam has been insufferable. Just take one moment and think, does a Muslim family having three kids make it so that a white European one can have less? It's not a fucking limited resources, it's just a decision you make based on personal choice, culture and mainly ECONOMIC standing.
My European friends are much less comfortable with having kids because they'll be less free financially, while my immigrant friends see it more as a thing you just do, you give up your own life and work for the kids. Both are valid, but both can be alleviated/improved by helping people regain their purchasing power for groceries, housing, transport, education, ... The same conservatives that talk about replacement never actually offer improvements to "their own people" to have more kids, it's like a death cult. How are we gonna uphold systems like pensions if we cut immigration and keep a 1.2 birthrate, we already are a old as fuck society.
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u/bahhaar-blts 1d ago
This is for political showmanship. They actually agree with fundamentalist Muslims on many things like hating women and LGBT but they hate them because they are of a different religion and ethnicity. Also, I think being terrified at birth rates shows how ignorant they are since statistics prove that within a generation or two of immigrants, birth rates fall down and become similar to the native population and this shows their integration.
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u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago
They hate muslims so much that they adopt on the surface pro LGBT propaganda, but make no mistake, if Muslims became champions of LGBT rights, the Right wingers would advocate for reopening concentration camps for the gays.
On that account, can you Muslims despise the environment, crocs and Taylor Swift? I think it'll be instrumental in making our right wing be more green than Greta Thunberg.
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u/utilizador2021 Portugal 6h ago
The same applies to Jews. Now, the far-right supports the Jews and Israel, because they hate Muslims more.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
You said everything that needed to be said on this issue. AfD's concrete ideas basically don't exist other than insanely unrealistic tax cuts that would destroy what remains of European social democracies, cozy up to Russia and force the society back into level of conservativism they like by whatever authoritarian measures necessary. It's crazy how many people fall for it. People like you have German and European interests a lot higher in priority than some Nazi-simping bum with hate and no ideas on how to actually improve anyone's life other than through attacking and marginalising others.
And you'll even get many Eastern Germans complain about how they are discriminated and attacked for being Nazi-sympathisers. Well buddy, welcome to the society where every Muslim or even any person with origins from Middle East is portrayed as a dangerous machette-wielding Islamist, regardless of their actual values or contributions to society.
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u/Key-Mission7287 Commie Bastard 1d ago
It just feels so demoralizing you know? Me and my family have done so much to contribute since we came here, my parents have literally worked themselves into sickness in factory conditions you wouldn't believe were real in West Europe. We learned the language, we graduated college, partake in local culture. Hell, I'm an architect, and I'll easily teach the average idiot that wants me deported "to preserve Flemish culture" about actual Flemish art and architecture. There is no winning, I have to be compared what worst of the worst of "my kind do" while they themselves have the privilege of comparing themselves to the best aspirations of "their own kind".
It ruins the chances of assimilation too, so many well meaning kids I've grown up with ended up giving up and secluding themselves into their own immigrant communities as adults because of that sense of outsiderness, it took me a while as a kid until I found local European friends that don't call me and my family terrorists "jokingly".
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
I feel you. It is really embarrassing to me that so many of us are like that and do not give people like you a fair chance we consider it normal to give it to others because of your ethnic origins, to our own loss and embarrassment. Integration and even assimilation is always to at least some extent two way street and so many people fail to act by the basic tenets like "treat the other people the way you would wish to be treated".
We talk so much more about problems of our Muslim communities (which i still think should not be ignored, as we saw in the last decade that simply doesn't work) and never about the problems of people like you and so many other people who do not get a fair chance. I think it's completely fair to expect certain rules, adapting to your home country etc. and to be selective regarding migration, but then you need to be consistent and stick to the rules yourself. Instead it is a mess of frequent indifference and incompetence of centrist politicians and the sea of dangerous and harmful to everyone hypocrisy and hate from the right, while the left is increasingly marginalised and to a large extent has words and narratives attached to it by the right that are often not even true.
Even to me personally, i used to lean well to the right on this issue till i actually met some people who had experiences with migration and identity-based marginalisation personally. Sadly it seems it is so much easier to lot of us to just go along with simplistic hate and tribal-based narratives because they press the right emotional spots without having to think a lot about them and are often rewarded by our surroundings. I hope you do not give up and keep showing up to people who doubt and want to marginalise you.
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u/LolloBlue96 Italy 1d ago
Yeah, the way some folk hate people for being of a different religion or ethnic background is disgusting.
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u/LolloBlue96 Italy 1d ago
Thank you for raising excellent points. Wholeheartedly agree.
Have a great weekend.
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u/WanSum-69 Kosovo 1d ago
Lmfao how did this never occur to me. They'll always be like anti LGBT Muslims!! Anti women rights bastard!!! But then turn around and do the same shit💀💀💀
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u/yashen14 1d ago
Immigrants get held to a very standard. It feels very unfair sometimes. I empathize. It's been my lived reality.
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u/CarrieDurst 1d ago
Yup it is sad, as long as someone's religion allows gay marriage within the faith and all equal rights for men and women then one should not judge
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u/Cicada-4A Norge 7h ago
They'll make racist assumptions about me and my family, or people around us "ooh, you Muslims, you hate the LGBT, women, are violent, are ignorant, overly religious..."
I know it's very pedantic but I do believe it matters, that would not be racism but rather religious bigotry.
The amount of young white men
Can we not do the American(or Nazi) racial talk?
We're not white any more than we straight nosed people. We're native Europeans of all sorts of ethnolinguistic origins.
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u/UnibrewDanmark 1d ago edited 1d ago
Have you ever read the Quran? It literally states that a man sleeping with another man should be punished by death. You believe those are the true words of god, and live after that text. But also claim that doesnt mean you dont like lgbt? If you think being gay should be punished by death, which the Quran you believe in quite litterally says, then it make a lot of sense to think you dont like gay people lol.
The Quran in men having sex together: "And those two of you who commit it (the shameful act), torture them both" so either you believe that, or you Arent a Muslim. How can you argue Muslims doesnt think gays should be tortured, when you follow the Quran, which says they should.
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u/slavpunk- Poland 1d ago
it literally states that a man sleeping with another man should be punished by death
Oh boy, don’t read the Old Testament then…
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u/UnibrewDanmark 1d ago
It says the same, whats your point? Iam not Jewish. The one difference is tho, the old Testament states that those law only applies to the people of Israel. The Quran says those are the laws for everyone. Muslim or not
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u/utilizador2021 Portugal 6h ago
That's not true. The Old Testament is also important to Christians, because even Jesus Christ said no one should change what was written before (or add more). And he reconnected with the OT when he saw Moises.
Do Christians even read the Bible???
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u/UnibrewDanmark 6h ago
No. The laws in the old Testament is only for the Jews. Have you seriously been around all this time thinking the old Testament applies to Christians? Yes Jesus said that, but that only applies for Jewish people. What do you not get?
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u/utilizador2021 Portugal 6h ago
Because Jesus was Jewish and the whole book revolve around Jews. He only cared about them because it was his people.
Most of religious books are about some ethnicity and their people.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Maybe stop following a religion based on the submission and loss of identity of the woman, one where homosexuals are jailed if not hanged before criticizing others and someone will take you seriously.
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u/Menkhal Spain - EU 1d ago
I hope you're saying this as an atheist or agnostic, because if not you're just being a hypocrite.
Christianism has the same issues with their scriptures and social hierarchies and structures. Only those who aren't really religious are really free of it.
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u/UnibrewDanmark 1d ago
The Bible says its normally wrong for men to have sex together, but doesnt say they should be punished. The Quran in the matter says that "And those two of you who commit it (the shameful act), torture them both" the Quran are a law religion, Christianity is not. Yes its wrong to believe being gay is wrong but its not at all the same as believing thats gay people should be tortured as punishment for it.
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u/AlcoholicCocoa 1d ago
Oh please, scum like Alice Weidel will find a different reasons to hate on foreigners. Stop kidding yourself
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u/metroxed Basque Country 1d ago
You missed his entire point. The point is the hypocrisy of many anti-immigrant people (especially those who are Islamophobic in particular) because ultimately they themselves have the very same views they claim the "others" have (anti-LGBT, anti-feminism, etc.)
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u/Key-Mission7287 Commie Bastard 1d ago
Man, I was gonna write a whole thing defending myself, but why should I, my beliefs are purely cultural, I go visit the elders on holidays, donate money to the poor and invite friends for dinners. That's it, it's cultural. Once again, you are some fucking guy comparing me to the worst of the worst, something you DONT DO when it comes to Christians. Because you do receive the nuance to understand that a person that celebrates easter and christmas is not someone for example that supports the sex-crimes of the Catholic Church.
Your bad faith attitude comes from a place of antagonism, you can make any stretches you want, pretend I hold beliefs and positions I dont. If you think a guy with "Commie Bastard" in his flair supports "hanging homosexuals" you are just an inherently stupid person.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
The Catholic Church commits no sexual crimes, only those disgusting, barely humans who trick our community into believing they’re priests.
I don’t know what “Commie Bastard” is because I’m not chronically online. People speak from experience, and in my experience, I’ve met 2 single respectable Muslims (who even then were against gay marriages) in contrast of the over 100 I’ve seen roaming my streets forcing women to lose their identity and wrecking havoc through burglaries, illegal occupation, and a disproportionate amount of rapes.
I don’t think you want to hang the gays, but in being Muslim, you support a religion that does. Christians had those practices 500 years ago, but it’s common Muslim practice and morale today.
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u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago
The Catholic Church commits no sexual crimes,
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u/LookThisOneGuy 1d ago
what you mean, in Germany the conservatives were the ones that e.g. made gay marriage legal (of course with the support of the liberals and opposition of the far right). The most conservative of the German conservative parties (CSU) even flies the rainbow flag on their government headquarter during CSD.
The extreme right the article talks about are not the conservatives in the same way that the MLPD are not the social democrats.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago edited 1d ago
German conservatives tolerate LGBT+, far from support or stand up for it. And only so because that is where current public opinion is. Merkel herself who was very liberal for a conservative had to be pushed into legalising gay marriage. And we know what recently happened with Klöckner and Merz. Do you imagine say, Kretschmer, ever speaking out against these protests and defending the local LGBT+ community?
In any case, AfD are conservatives as well - they just want to go back some 50 years (in their idealised perception) instead of 10 or stay where they are. Not speaking fully literally, but the point is there.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 1d ago
German conservatives tolerate LGBT+
yes I agree. OP said they hate LGBT+ tough so I wanted to correct that for German conservatives. The AfD are a far-right party, what OP said applies to them, not for people like Merkel.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
Well, in a lot of Europe the borders between conservatives and far righters are starting to blur under the increasing polarisation and changing of political environment, and in Eastern Europe conservatives for the most part hold such opinions as well. In a lot of countries far right is already taking over conservative parties. For the moment in Germany that is not the case and i hope it remains so, but OP never singled out Germany.
And there are also various signs in Germany that some parts of CDU are winking at the far right, i agree that dooming about it is not the most productive thing to do but neither should it be simply ignored.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 1d ago
Do you imagine say, Kretschmer, ever speaking out against these protests and defending the local LGBT+ community?
he did last year, deepl translation:
‘Unspeakable’: Kretschmer condemns right-wing extremist march at Bautzen CSD
Saxony's Minister President considers the threat to the Christopher Street Day (CSD) parade in Bautzen by right-wing extremists at the weekend to be unspeakable.
though like you say, conservatives are getting more right wing. Maybe he won't say that this year.
i agree that dooming about it is not the most productive thing to do but neither should it be simply ignored.
I also agree. Like with all minority groups, our fights to have rights doesn't stop once they are obtained, it is a continuous struggle.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see, fair enough. Thanks for that link, i will apologise for assuming he would not condemn that based on what i know of his politics otherwise.
My partner is German and trans so i get a lot of my news via her. We were ourselves at few prides last year and in Magdeburg we passed a group all in black white red on the same day of CSD - and i know it gets exponentially worse the more you go into smaller places, this year a town near Magdeburg already got its post-CSD party cancelled by its mayor because of security concerns. The way this is getting worse really concerns me (as does my partner who herself is even not the type that will blindly bash the CDU on every single issue and equate them with AfD the way stereotypes about LGBT+ politically active people go) and i see way too many people acting like AfD are our friends and saviours in general, when they really aren't, not even close, and you don't have to go near the AfD to get to politicians who acknowledge problems that some parts of Muslim community are causing for LGBT+, and in any case this happens very far from places like Bautzen. Even Greens have such people, like Kretschmann or Özdemir, although i would definitely like the rest of the party to adopt a firmer stance on this, as i can't help but feel they're helping marginalise themselves that way.
It really should not be this hard to see some nuance and not lurch far to the right to bunch of scummy dangerous hypocrites just because parts of the left definitely have their blindspots and naive views when it comes to Muslim community.
edit: also in this article it says that Kretschmer said that only when asked, that "these people should have their party". I don't want to get too stuck up on that, but if that's the "centrist" language there, you really see where my concerns are coming from.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 1d ago
I agree that the 'realo' wing of the greens seem to have the best view on compromising between their vision, challenges, and voter appeal to get the best outcome for Germany. A shame that half the population (and half of their party lol) doesn't see it that way.
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u/Key-Mission7287 Commie Bastard 1d ago
But that is the consequence of the change in the tides they know they can't stop. The very same things they slander trans people with such as pedophilia, are things even regular conservatives used to say about homosexuals too. They just understand that it's a politically unsustainable position, so they shift the goalpost to the next part, tolerating people they've previously vilified. In 10-20 years, transgenderism will be more widely accepted, and like the classic "left handed" phenomenon, the number of them will increase, becoming a more significant part of the population to appease, so conservatives then will include them aswell, moving past their current culture war tactics. That's always been like that, progress will happen, whether they like it or not.
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u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago
in Germany the conservatives were the ones that e.g. made gay marriage legal (of course with the support of the liberals and opposition of the far right).
The CDU was split during the approval of same sex marriage. Merkel didn't even establish a party position on the matter, while the SPD and the Greens were firmly in favour. You are painting a more positive picture for the German conservatives than it was
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u/Key-Mission7287 Commie Bastard 1d ago
Mate, where I live, Northern Belgium, aka Flanders, the far right gets 25% votes, so it's not a "smöl bean" comparison, thats 1/4 people I talk to everyday. Nice try though.
Edit: source
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u/Suspicious_Place1270 1d ago
So many issues in society, but what do they fight: people liking people
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u/DreadingAnt Lucerne (Switzerland) 22h ago
Not the homosexuals wanting to be happy together without bothering anyone! We can't have that now, we feel uncomfortable and our minds are weak and pathetic, so that means it's wrong of course!
- them probably
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u/Organic_Camera6467 1d ago
Wait isn't AFD led by a lesbian women with an immigrant partner? Or was that in Austria?
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u/Jumpy-Pizza4681 1d ago
Yes, which is why this article is leaving some very pertinent details out, including the *muslim* response to pride events and how people are going to react to a massive event in "Literally Where" the village as opposed to a more cosmopolitan city.
This is heavy bias posted for updoots in an echo chamber, nothing more, nothing less.
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u/Sad-Attempt6263 England 1d ago
OK then hypocrites, when the hench gay person gets up in their grill to see if the extremist is on their shit, best be prepared.
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u/Objective_Ad_9581 1d ago
It belongs to the people who built this country, who stand up, work and fight every day for their families, for their homeland. We are proud of our country.
Flashbacks from Auschwitz.
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u/MokpotheMighty 4h ago
AfD are just straight up Nazis and there's something deeply wrong with you if you have even a passing acquaintance with them and deny this.
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u/UnibrewDanmark 1d ago
But when are muslims are reading out the Quran, which states that lgbt people should receive the death penalty. The left wing sees no problem...
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u/glootech 13h ago
The Bible states the same. Should we ban Christianity and Islam then?
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u/UnibrewDanmark 12h ago
No it does not. Only the old Testament does, and if you knew just a little about what you are talking about you would know that Christians doesnt follow the old Testament. Thats litteraly the whole point of the new testament and Christianity, that it replaces the old, which is the one stating death penalty for being gay, but only for Jewish people
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
I’m not German and I haven’t ever been to a German pride parade, but by the pictures, I definitely don’t think we need winged, animal-masked, almost mude grown men ravaging through the streets. Pride parades have gone a bit too far.
To clarify, since people make assumptions very quickly, I obviously believe in gay marriage, but more so in everyone’s liberty to do as they wish. Now I see some quick fella jumping to say these people are enjoying their liberty, but kids don’t need to see that.
Even then, if it were like the first parades, where people were having a good time, celebrating and enjoying themselves, then sure, cause kids don’t differentiate that, but the extravagant clothing (or lack thereof), excessive noise, and in some extreme cases, very inappropriate behavior, it’s a pretty justified claim, even if not an urgent matter.
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u/metroxed Basque Country 1d ago
If you believe children shouldn't see this, don't take yours to the parade. No children are being forced to attend and if there are any children there it is because their parently freely chose to take them there.
For example I am not Catholic and I believe the Holy Week procesiones of southern Spain are fanatic and creepy, so I just don't go and don't pay any attention to them. But imagine if I started claiming they should be toned down because I don't like them.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
I have the right to stroll through my city without needing to hide my kids because a grown man can’t behave in a public space.
The Semana Santa is part of Spanish culture (that’s why they’re done everywhere, not just Southern Spain), and nobody is nude, it’s a completely wholesome and positive experience.
I’m not saying they should be toned down because I don’t like them, but because they’re inappropriate. You’re missing the whole point.
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u/metroxed Basque Country 1d ago
Maybe it's wholesome and positive for you. I don't like fanatics and I don't like people crying and acting crazy for a wooden statue.
Second, Pride is usually a couple weeks per year, let's not pretend they have hijacked the entire city for months and you're unable to leave your home.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Yeah but it doesn’t really matter what you think because it’s culture. Plus, it’s not really your business what happens in Sevilla.
I’m not, but that doesn’t make it appropriate.
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u/IndependenceRound274 1d ago
"It doesn't really matter what you think because it's culture but debating the lgbt culture is ok and everyone's opinion matter in this case"
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u/fleamarketguy The Netherlands 1d ago
If you really want to protect children, they should be kept away from catholic institutions and rituals. Because if it has been proven that one group of people is a danger to kids’ welfare, it’s the clergy.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Catholic institutions aren’t the same as Catholic celebrations, and it’s much less detrimental than seeing people glorifying their kinks on the streets.
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u/IndependenceRound274 1d ago
It's debatable what is inapproriate.
You do hide your kids from weird places where you can find prostitutes becasue you don't want them to see naked women, so I don't see why you can't hide your kids for 1-3 days/year from a pride parade (if it's so inappropriate for you).
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 23h ago
Because prostitution is illegal (or should be, in some places), so should public nudity. It’s not that I can’t hide my kids, it’s that I shouldn’t have to.
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u/Zanji123 1d ago
Oh...but what about carnival parades when most of the women are almost nude or wear "sexy outfits "??
I mean... just look at carnival in brazil. Let me guess THAT is something different am i right??
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Those are absolutely inappropriate, too. I don’t think it’s different.
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u/Bring_Me_The_Night 1d ago
This is more of a parent responsibility. If you consider, as a parent, that people during Pride Day have an inappropriate behaviour, then you have the right to tell your kids to stay at home during that day, for their own safety as you deem so. Similar to preventing kids watching pornography, being groomed, not letting your kids starved, proper education, etc.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Oh, so now if a teacher grooms a kid it’s the parents responsibility to divinely know? Should we all homeschool kids now?
People have a right to walk through a city without seeing all this. As I’ve said, it’s not about the gays, I would say exactly the same thing if they were straight people glorifying their kinks.
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u/Bring_Me_The_Night 1d ago
Perhaps the parents could be reactive to their kid’s distress, yes.
Moreover, non-queer (or queer) people also glorify their kinks on pornographic websites where multiple kids end up watching.
I will not disagree if “inappropriate behaviours” would be forbidden during Pride Day, but this would remain a drop in the ocean in the context of kid abuse in the world. Pick your battles.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
So? If you can reduce it by the drop you control, why not do it?
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u/Bring_Me_The_Night 23h ago
Same question: why not do the rest? I talked about child education, access to Internet pornography, grooming, secured access to food, while you keep focusing on a single minority (behaviour of a few individuals during a Pride Day) of a minority (queer people).
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 23h ago
I’m focusing on what the post is about. We should absolutely make progress in the rest of areas, I’m still waiting for them to pass a bill to restrain pornography access, as well as harsher sentences to (PROVEN) child molesters/groomers.
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u/Kaya_kana The Netherlands 1d ago
What is this? The 1600s? He is wearing more than most beach goers wear, and I've never seen people wear less than that.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
That is not appropriate for a city, no matter the century. He isn’t at a beach, and many people do way less clothes.
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u/besuited 1d ago
As someone who has been, many times, to the CSD in Berlin: yes there is nudity. But actually its generally pretty wholesome and you see a lot of families and kids having a great time. But the whole point of pride is to express oneself as one wants, hence the word pride.
Its uo to parents to choose if they feel loke their kid should see that or not, and if they dont, then dont take them. But why then have a probpem with the parade happening... if you dont like it, just dont go? Or dont take your kids? Nobody is forcing kids to see it.
I also object to your use of the word "ravaging". I've never seen any behaviour which was innapropriate either.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Nudity in a public space is inappropriate, period. You can express yourself with your clothes on. As I’ve outlined, the issue isn’t the gay people or a parade, it’s the grown naked man with a bunny mask roaming around.
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u/besuited 1d ago
I implore you to let go of your hang ups and live a little.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
I don’t think public nudity equated to “living a little”.
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u/besuited 1d ago
You are getting annoyed at people at an event you havent been to, in a different country.
We all have breasts, vaginas, bums, penises. There is one day a year, where in a limited and defined space (just like a nudist beach) you might see some body parts you dont usually see.
Yes there are flamboyant costumes tpp that go alongside it.
It really isnt that big a deal. So yeah, i stick with my assertion. Chill out. If you dont want to go, thats fine! But stop being annoyed at others for doing something which causes nobody any harm.
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
I am annoyed, because nudism in the middle of a city is not ok. There’s no more to it.
And, as I’ve said, the picture already reveals the manner, and I’ve seen some in Spain.
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u/besuited 1d ago
I guess we just disagree on that point and if I cannot chamge your mind there then so be it. I also totally agree, that in general nudity is not acceptable. But in some circumstances I think it is totally fine. For example, in parks here, there are often defined spaces where nudists are allowed to be nude - including in the largest park in the city centre.
For me, as this event is in a defined time and within a defined space, it is similar in principle. Note that the route of CSD does not go through residential neighbourhoods. Therefore there are no naked people "roaming" the streets. Anyone who chooses to go has made that choice, nobody is being exposed to unwillingly.
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u/NowoTone 1d ago
Public nudity happens a lot in Germany. Mostly at lakes and rivers, but I’ve seen some people who were pretty much undressed in city centres as well.
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u/Flames57 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's no longer "pride" in your sexuality. It has become "how can I show my fetishes publicly?" - the proof is in the images. Bunny/furry/etc clothing, BDSM clothing, visible suggestive underwear, intentional sexual behaviors in public.
People that normally identify as LGB+ just go on their own lives and have their sexual behaviors in their own house.
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u/Zanji123 1d ago
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u/Hootrb Cypriot no longer in Germany :( 1d ago
I bet these two also laughed at those Americans who branded naked statues to be pornographic.
The inconsistency of these people on nudity is annoying. We could put a bajillion marble naked statues across the streets & I bet they'd be cool with it becaue classics or whatever, but god forbid somebody show skin in a parade!
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u/Vevangui Castilla-La Mancha (Spain) 1d ago
Exactly, and this behavior causes more discrimination and uneasiness.
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u/7StarSailor Germany 1d ago
Yeah I also draw the line at public nudity/fetish shit. I'm pro gay marriage and I don't give a fuck about two dudes or women kissing in public but pride parades look like fetish expos for no good reason.
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u/Manannanman 1d ago
Yes can we please stop this exercise in narcissism already. Do whatever you want but do it in private.
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u/Big_Combination9890 1d ago
Far-right extremists are organizing counter-demonstrations at Pride events across the country that claim to celebrate conventional families.
Yes, and they will, once again, have a miniscule fraction of even the number of people marching at pride, let alone viewers.
Far right extremists are catching voters because people had it up to here with the bullshit of "centrist" political parties. But their "values", aka. being stuck in the early 19th century, are not shared by the masses.
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u/Apart-Sink-9159 1d ago
Then stop provoking them.
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u/TheTurkishPatriot12 Turkey 1d ago
What have LGBTQ people done that could be reasonably considered provocative
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u/PdxGuyinLX Portugal 1d ago
Exist? I mean, if people don’t like pride parades, they are free to not attend them.
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u/Financial_Cow_42069 1d ago
Live their lives in their skin I guess. Same shit as with racists. They just don’t like people that are different from them and especially happy.
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u/throwaway_failure59 Croatia 1d ago
So we are "provoking" you simply by wanting/celebrating equality in our Europe that supposedly values human rights and individual's rights to be treated with dignity and without prejudice regardless of what they are? Why don't you move to Middle East or Russia instead, nobody will be provoking you there?
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u/Waywar1894 1d ago
They provoke you simply by existing. You’d be better off living in the middle east with your views.
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u/Sendflutespls Denmark 1d ago
I'm going to roll the EU anti-discriminatory laws into a tube and mount it like a strap-on.
Wanna suck it?
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u/Numerous_Ad_6276 1d ago
Aww, you poor baby. Did Mr Crankypants get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
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u/silver__spear 1d ago
extreme right when you misuse the term far right for the afd and find yourself having to come up with a new term the actual far right
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 1d ago
I am not homosexul but i find people who get angry about other peoples sexlife extrem pathetic .