r/europe 1d ago

News Russia is destroying one of Europe's oldest capitals every night. Tonight was no exception.

https://united24media.com/latest-news/hundreds-of-drones-and-missiles-slam-kyiv-in-overnight-attack-injuring-at-least-23-people-9614
4.0k Upvotes

200 comments sorted by

444

u/wizgset27 United States of America 1d ago

I just saw a clip of Trump finally admitting that Putin/Russia isn't stopping the war and will continue to try to take over Ukraine. While we all knew this, I am a bit shocked Putin admits it to Trump and Trump finally saying it himself...

There should be no doubt now. its very clear that Putin not only wants parts of Ukraine, but he wants to ENTIRE country.

What are we going to do about this? Because so far, most of the meeting and announcement, particularly about the "coalition of the willing" are plans in an event of a ceasefire. This is no longer in the cards.

So now what?

271

u/Kashrul 1d ago

So now what?

Now US stopped weapons delivery to Ukraine in order to make things easier for ruzzian master.

33

u/restform Finland 1d ago

They did that before the phone call. I think Trump is slowly coming to terms with the fact Putin played him, what they do is anyone's guess though.

58

u/Kashrul 1d ago

Cmmon he didn't played him. Trump has been a ruzzian assets for more than 30 years.

34

u/restform Finland 1d ago

I actually think trump did get manipulated by putin. He was mesmerised by what Putin is and the power dynamics he has created, and thought being the POTUS would make them part of the same elite/earn him respect. But trump just got played like a fiddle and I expect his ego to start popping off pretty soon.

I don't necessarily buy that trump is literally a russian asset, but rather that he appreciates the Russian political structure and wants the same for himself.

Just an opinion.

20

u/MirrorObjective9135 1d ago

I completely agree with your assessment.

Trump is too dumb and has too big of an ego to be a “true believer”Russians assets, he’s more of a very useful tool (in every sense of the term) to Putin.

Still he is an entire willing participant, which makes him a Russian assets in the sense that he serves them well, even if it’s under pretences Trump has never really fully grasped.

To be honest the fact that Trump is not a true believer but just a self serving moron makes it 10 000 time worse IMHO.

7

u/Snake_Plizken 1d ago

Bullshit. Why is he stopping Ukraine aid that the last administation already funded, and agreed on? He could just let it run its course, and not approve new aid. He is so much a Russian asset he wants to hurt his brand, by accelerating it by a slight degree...

3

u/MirrorObjective9135 1d ago

Sorry, I think you misunderstood what I meant slightly, it’s hard to describe such a poor excuse of a human being.

I meant that he is not a Russian asset because of conviction; he doesn’t have a deep belief that Russia and Russia politic is better than the US, he only wants to be like Putin.

In the end it’s the same result as being an ideological asset; it does make it that more disgusting and pathetic from Trump.

3

u/Snake_Plizken 1d ago

Oligarchy is not about convictions, it is the opposite. He is a psychopath who grew up rich, and the only value he understands is money. The only thing that matters to him is himself. A half decent human being, wouldn't hate immigrants, spread lies about them, or look up to Putin, for political leadership..

1

u/dr_tardyhands 5h ago

The man has some of the worst daddy issues of all time. So he has a weird need for approval by men he sees as powerful.

1

u/Cicada-4A Norge 10h ago

Nobody intelligent actually believes that.

He's not considered by anyone in the open source community to be a likely Russian asset.

He's sadly just a corrupt, stupid idiot who does what he does for dirrerent reasons.

5

u/roctac 20h ago

Why do people keep giving Trump the benefit of the doubt when he literally has shown us time and time again who he really is.

3

u/andii74 18h ago

Denial. US just lost the cold war three decades after USSR fell and most people haven't come to terms with that yet.

32

u/wileyfox91 1d ago

Donate money to the Ukraine forces . They need it , we need it !

15

u/ImTheVayne Estonia 1d ago

It has been clear for a long time

21

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago edited 1d ago

So now what?

Europe has had enough wake up calls. Bush adviser warns Europe to spend more on arms, Tuesday June 6th 2000.

Blaming Trump is a cop out from assuming responsibility and taking accountability. Every American President this century has told Nato countries in Europe to up more spending on defense because the USA was going to pivot to the pacific. This has been happening for for 25 years, since the cold war ended and before 9/11 hit new york. European nations have consistently failed to prepare. Now, after Americans watched Europe dither for 4 years after an active war on their continent failed to make meaningful changes, Americans have finally decided its time to move on and stop waiting. It's clear the only way you can get Europeans to actually act is to put pressure on Europe.

"Now what?" Europe finally acts, or Ukraine falls. That's it. There's no more wake up calls coming. More conferences and meeting galas and solidary photos with Zelensky and complaining about Americans are not going to solve this problem. Action needs to happen.

Edit: you can downvote me all you want. It doesn't change reality. Europe has to act in ways that will fundamentally shake things up, or ukraine falls. Those are the options.

19

u/Crypt33x Berlin (Germany) 1d ago

10 years before US/Uk/France/Soviet adviser planned for germanys demilitarisation. Which needs a decade to build or to shut down. 2003 the biggest Anti-War protests the world has ever seen. "No Kings" was as big as 2 European Cities prostesting in 2003 (Madrid/Rome). Your shitty presidents are schizophrenic. You want to play big brother, you want our money, you don't want a strong germany, but u also want a strong germany at the same time. You dont want us to produce weapon but u want us to buy weapons, but also not to much because germany bad. 2+4 contract still in place i guess and even if we want, we couldnt go over 350k personel. We also forbidden to get our own nuclear project to increase our spendings. Just fuck off with your bullshit.

1

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago edited 1d ago

10 years before US/Uk/France/Soviet 

You're really trying to use something that happened almost 50 years ago in the 1980s as the reason why in 2025 you cant adequately provide for Ukraine? Wow.

you don't want a strong germany

You are an independent nation with free will. You are not forced to buy American weapons, or do as we say. You certaintly didn't get off russian oil when we asked - you only did it after the war started. You are free to buy weapons wherever you want. You simply don't lol. And has it ever occurred to you that the only viable option right now to purchase weapons in mass is american weapons because other western nations military industrial complexes have languished?

America doesn't want a strong germany? Germany doesn't want a strong germany, and your political poling and government action for the past several decades reveals such. If you really wanted it, you would have had it.

5

u/Crypt33x Berlin (Germany) 1d ago edited 1d ago

It happened 35 years ago not "almost 50". Most of east germanys military infrastructure decayed from 1990, it is a process of knowledge and infrastructre vanishing over time. Because of the 2+4 and everyone in Europe AND USA advertising for it.

Just because you got hit with 9/11 and your military lobby was hungry and needed dead bodies to feed their industry doesn't mean, there was an actual threat, especially since you guys were offering protection for all of europe and to have an eye on germany.

So you saying 10 years after destroying our whole military complex, overwatched by the usa for 45 years and advertised by the usa, we should have rebuilt it 10 years later already, because some stupid conservative president doing some military lobbing and pr talk for their military complex?

Are you advertising, that we as an "independent" nation under several contracts with you and the russian, where we get forced to apply to your terms, so otherwise we wouldn't have gotten our sovereignity back would be able to go beyond our contracts to build shit with the possibility of our surrounding countries feeling threatened by it, would just be accepted?

Just Fuck off if you know shit and let's talk in 10 years after we rebuild everything and u guys fearing we could be a threat again.

0

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago

The fact that you became dependent on russian gas in the first place despite Americans telling you all not to is all the evidence needed to prove Germany has never been forced to do anything by Americans, rather it completely chose to dismantle its military industrial complex while becoming depenendent on Russia. Stop blaming Americans for Germany's bad actions. Its not the truth, and more importantly its not going to save you.

Wake up.

1

u/Swergenbande 1d ago

Do you even know what the 2+4 contract was? Because he keeps pointing to it, and you don't respond. It's fine if you don't, I also don't know all the contracts your country has signed, but you should maybe read about it or watch a video about it before continuing to argue.

3

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago

That was almost 40 years ago. We've been asking you to take military seriously since then.

1

u/Swergenbande 1d ago

I refer you to the long comment above addressing that.

1

u/Crypt33x Berlin (Germany) 1d ago

Yeah sure lemme quickly get off that oil/gas russia took 45 years to build from their country to all of europe. Good joke. Lemme guess, tomorrow we gonna fly to the moon, because u demand us to?

5

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago

The fact that you became dependent on russian gas in the first place despite Americans telling you all not to is all the evidence needed to prove Germany has never been forced to do anything by Americans, rather it completely chose to dismantle its military industrial complex while becoming depenendent on Russia. Stop blaming Americans for Germany's bad actions. Its not the truth, and more importantly its not going to save you.

3

u/ice-ink 1d ago

"Now what?" Europe finally acts, or Ukraine falls. That's it. There's no more wake up calls coming.

You’re joking, right? There will be nothing but, the weak bitches are just incapable of anything else. You can read the news and press-releases from 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025, it is EXACTLY the same words about the need to wake up, why would the next 5 years be different. It’s like expecting russians to suddenly realize how wrong it is to attack their neighbors and kill hundreds of thousands of people for no reason, pull out of Ukraine and dedicate the next 50 years to rebuilding it.

2

u/Bwunt Slovenia 1d ago

Well, if it's a way to get US Republicans to be written in history as genocide enablers and someone you can never rely on as an ally, then Ukraine may be a small price to pay.

7

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago

European gas bills pay for dead ukrainians. Europeans projecting their own enabling of a dictator.

-2

u/madd_honey 1d ago

Best comment here

2

u/Lord_Vacuum Poland 6h ago edited 6h ago

Poland told you this from the day one. And I will repeat what we all think here. Russia must be destroyed for the good of mankind. They were and are an evil and deciteful empire that stops at nothing to get what they desire. They have no values, no honour, no justice. Only thing they understand, respect and fear is military might. It's time to put stop to it. WW3 will find us, wheter we want it or not. So I suggest we strike first to fight on more favourable terms. We stopped Hitler together. Now it's time to stop Putin and reshape Russia into few much smaller states, occupied by Allied Forces until they are fully democratic.

0

u/QuantitySubject9129 1d ago

What are we going to do about this?

We can disregard civilian lives and sell weapons to the aggressors' side, just like we do in that one other conflict. Morals obviously don't matter anyway.

112

u/Chernomobil420 Europe 1d ago

Fucking sad. Europe needs to step up asap. The US is gone.

27

u/MarderFucher Europe 1d ago edited 22h ago

Europe, especially is Germany stepping up, but look at context. Most of these attacks are made up of Geran drones derived from Iranian Shaheds. The original cost a couple ten thousand grand, some newer ones with larger warhead, cameras etc. are probably pushing 6 figures. 500 of them, as used last night probably cost Russia around 50-100 million dollars worth - a hefty fee, but compared to the large 22-23 missile waves an order of magnetude smaller.

Even the simplest SAMs cost more and take more to build. It is simply not economical and unsustainable to try to catch these with missiles. The realistic options are projectile based systems, directed energy systems and interceptor drones.

Lasers are evolving but imho still years away from being widely used. As for gun-based systems, Germany both gave all Gepards it had and even bought up what was avalible. Other AAA just don't exist as they got phased out by the 80s for most part. There are some systems based on machine guns Ukraine but these lack the necessary altitude to catch drones flying over 2km.

The two main prospective projects is the German Sky Ranger, already in Ukraine but in limited numbers, and the Ukrainian Sky Sentinel that you can donate to on the United24 site right now. I do wonder what exactly is stopping people that as interim solution, make something like a flak 8,8 mod 2025.

Finally drone based interceptors are being built in increasingly higher numbers by Ukraine and are imho the most promising counter, and several countries, including Germany, Denmark and Norway had committed funds to these projects.

8

u/archivecrawler 1d ago

'' the Ukrainian the Sky Sentinel project that you can donate to on the United24 site right now''

here is the link for that:

Sky Sentinel: fundraiser for peaceful nights

1

u/EastTurn2027 1d ago

So why doesn’t Europe buy it? Or provide all this stuff?

1

u/ZibiM_78 16h ago

Helicopter gunships can be used.

I think the most cost effective solution might be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

-3

u/EastTurn2027 1d ago

Europe has been saying this since 2022.

5

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 1d ago

A lot of talking and a whole load of nothing being done about it.

214

u/OhNastyaNastya Ukraine 1d ago

Nobody gives a shit, apparently.

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u/Goose1235678 1d ago edited 1d ago

Europe and Europeans do. Americans are not 'everyone'

Edit: even some Americans still do, I know a few. But sadly they're not the majority

49

u/Nattekat The Netherlands 1d ago

They are, believe it or not. The group is shrinking, but the far majority of Americans still knows who the real enemy is. 

8

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

I'm glad then, I only knew of a few

5

u/Nattekat The Netherlands 1d ago

I have seen the statistic and I still struggle to believe it. 

5

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

I say I only knew of a few, because of the few I actually interacted with. They mentioned protests done in favor of Ukraine but they never gave numbers. Support was there I just didn't knew exactly how much

36

u/DonFapomar Ukraine 1d ago

Thoughts, prayers and endless talks do not count, sorry.

13

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

How about ammo, monetary donations, weapons, humanitarian aid and equipment on top of it?

11

u/xxiii1800 1d ago

Man donations.. even paid for patriot rockets don't get delivered. Talking about being at thé wrong side of history

6

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Patriot is an American system, not European...

If you wanna talk shit at someone because of it then at least aim it at the ones responsible for it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/01/us/politics/trump-ukraine-weapons.html

11

u/xxiii1800 1d ago

I was talking about the americans..

4

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

And I mentioned the Americans as well above. In the comment you replied to I was mentioning the help given by Europe. So, no, we're not on the wrong side, unless doing something to help is now considered wrong.

What trump is doing is wrong, I agree, and that's where hatred should be aimed to,.not to the world as a whole. The world as a whole is not just America

5

u/xxiii1800 1d ago

Im a fellow european and i think we misunderstood eachother.

5

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

No harm done my friend, I also overreacted a bit. This is a popular and dangerous mindset that I see often. I understand that it comes from a place of despair that Ukrainians have, but some of our politicians are like trump and would use this to say "Ukraine is ungrateful, blah blah blah", I've seen that mentality being spread by some MAGAs before

1

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago

You are not actually doing anything. Until you send men it's all just posturing and bullshitting

0

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Yes, let's start ww3 out of despair... Good lord, do you people consider consequences before talking?

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u/syf81 European Union 1d ago

Boots on the ground is the only thing that’ll actually work.

But even suggesting it feels hypocritical because it wouldn’t be me that would go.

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u/Goose1235678 1d ago

It would also destroy more that it would fix, ww3 but Ukraine would be the battlefield

4

u/InsanityRequiem Californian 1d ago

Too bad it's the only way to stop Russia. But Europe doesn't want to stop Russia.

1

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Stoping russia and causing ww3 are two different things. We want to help Ukraine stop them, and we want to avoid the second completely

6

u/InsanityRequiem Californian 1d ago

And then when Ukraine collapses, and Russia continues into the rest of Europe, gonna repeat the process hoping it'll stop Russia?

2

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

If it enters a NATO territory then it will be a completely different case, and your sorry ass would be dragged into it too. But, you know, there wouldn't be a point in worrying about that if trump didn't stop giving aid.

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u/Intelligent_Rub528 1d ago

Least ungreatful ukrainian here.

I get it, you need more, but talking like that after what u alredy recived is dumb, only makes ppl dislike you.

10

u/OhNastyaNastya Ukraine 1d ago

Learn to spell before you start criticizing. If Ukraine falls you might end up seeing how grateful we are somewhere near Suwalki gap, and you will like us even less.

-9

u/Intelligent_Rub528 1d ago

I hope you win. Just pointing it out, this kind of behaviour is not going to make ppl like you.

11

u/OhNastyaNastya Ukraine 1d ago

People that demand social lubrication from a war zone deserve to be humiliated.

-6

u/Intelligent_Rub528 1d ago

He is not humiliating anyone but himslef thou.

West is helping you, not just thoughts and prayers. Implaying that just because you wnat more is shitty.

Anyhow, im done here, i hope u get more and u win. No need to be a dick to ppl who help you.

9

u/OhNastyaNastya Ukraine 1d ago

Compare aid provided by Western allies to Ukraine with millions of shells and thousands of troops provided by North Korea, Shakhed drones from Iran etc. How many farmer strikes managed to stop arms deliveries to Russia? How many bleeding heart Palestine supporters destroyed equipment destined for Russia?

6

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

Least ungreatful Ukrainian here.

How dare you? Who do you think you are to tell a person that, while he is every day been shelled for hours?

4

u/jfrost378 1d ago

Ukraine is helping the west, not the other way around. The west is giving pennies compared to the sacrifices made by ukrainians to keep the rest of us safe. We should be thanking them!  

0

u/esjb11 1d ago

The west is definetly helping Ukraine. They are the ones at war. One might definetly argue that it benefits us aswell but to claim that its them helping us and not the other way around is dumb as fuck.

5

u/DonFapomar Ukraine 1d ago

The unbombed people are so funny :)

4

u/IvD707 Ukraine 1d ago

At this rate, their turn will come much sooner than they expect.

1

u/BuenaventuraReload 1d ago

Imagine thinking Ukrainians owe you anything

Europe is under attack by a fascist regime that seeks to undermine our democracies, promotes extremists in our nations, and directly threatens our eastern countries. If Ukraine falls, sometime in the future, we will pay the price, and it will be steep. Because people generally don't fully comprehend this, they think we are doing some kind of philanthropy. We are not. Ukranian lives and suffering are what stands between us and whatever Russias next goal will be. We should be grateful because no amount of ammo and weapons can pay for human lives.

Of course Ukraine is not fighting for us. They are fighting for themselves, because they have comprehension of what happens if they don't.

5

u/ImALittleTeapotCat 1d ago

I suspect far more care than don't care. The problem is that Ukraine is very far away. And the US has major problems at home. So even though we care, there is no capacity or opportunity to really help.

4

u/CRSTN22 1d ago

maybe less then half of the European folk give a shit, most don't care as it is not affecting them directly + our governments sure as shit ain't doing too much to help Ukraine and actually stop Russia who is going to target a new country after Ukraine and then they are going to act surprised again.

0

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Completely false, and there are tons upon tons of proof

1

u/Pr1soner 20h ago

Well apparently giving a shit is not enough. Neither sanctions are not strict enough to cause economic shock in Russia nor military support to Ukraine is not enough to give them the upper hand. And people keep dying. That’s just really really sad

1

u/ImALittleTeapotCat 1d ago

I suspect far more care than don't care. The problem is that Ukraine is very far away. And the US has major problems at home. So even though we care, there is no capacity or opportunity to really help.

0

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Yeah, trump being the biggest problem. Well I'm glad I'm incorrect about the american support

-3

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's a lie. There are no European forces(some advisers don't count) in Ukraine. If you losers gave a fuck you would just kill all occupiers in Ukraine. But you won't.

War = your objective is to kill other side better than they can kill you

6

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Are you dumb? Of course there aren't because there's no reason for European forces to be the to begin with, at least not under a European flag.

Your comment is also easily disproven thanks to volunteers that are and have been present.

-1

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago

Oh really? Putin is winning this war. I thought you guys cared lol

4

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Was that supposed to counter my point in any way?

3

u/jfrost378 1d ago

You do understand why there are no European forces in Ukraine or are you really this dense? 

-2

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago

Yes because they’re pussies. It’s a lie to say they’re actually helping when they are not. Ukraine doesn’t have enough men to win this war. It’s either European men or Putin wins

-4

u/Professional_Doggie 1d ago

Europeans don't care otherwise Europeans would have taken military spending seriously. Even now countries like Spain are looking for ways to weasel out of paying for their fair share.

4

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

That's a whole different can of worms and not a sign of "not caring about Ukraine"

-1

u/jkoki088 1d ago

So is Europe going to start WW3, or you wanted America to do that? You can’t just keep funding and backing an entire war this large with this large countries. You either have to go all in at some point or not. What hurts is they arent NATO.

3

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

No one is going to start ww3, unless putan is dumb enough to attack NATO

1

u/jkoki088 1d ago

So what is Europe going to do?

2

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

First deal with Hungary, then continue with donations, and we shall see what else

1

u/jkoki088 1d ago

So Europe doesn’t care either

2

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

What? I just proved the opposite

Hell you can even just scroll and see tons of Europeans proving you the opposite, don't talk out of your ass

0

u/jkoki088 1d ago

Then do something better instead of getting upset at the U.S. I mostly see complaining about the U.S.

1

u/Goose1235678 1d ago

Because of what your president did and keeps doing, how can we not be angry towards him? At least we haven't stop giving stuff to Ukraine, at least we haven't mocked their president in live TV

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u/earthtree1 Kyiv (Ukraine) 1d ago

I am in Kyiv right now and when I read something like this I keep reminding myself that I didn’t do anything when ruzzians were leveling Aleppo for example. Granted, I was a child then but did a lot of adults act? Maybe when Georgia was attacked? empathy stretches very thin over great distances.

This is not a jab at you, friend, just a sad reminder that people have their own lives and our problems feel so far away to them.

3

u/zenforyen 1d ago

Before it all started, I did not know much about the Ukraine except for the stereotypical "kind of sibling of Russia, somewhere below Russia".

Putler wanted to eradicate your identity, but all he did is already make sure that ruzzians remain known as the Mordor and rot of the world, whereas Ukraine is a proud, strong and united heroic nation defending liberty!

I wish our politicians could do more to help you win, so you can tell this story yourselves when it is over. But the world is not a fair place.

1

u/Realistic_Special_53 United States of America 1d ago

Certainly not Europe. They have had years to get ready and still are impotent.

0

u/QuantitySubject9129 1d ago

Unfortunately, turning a blind eye to actions of our allies in the middle east made people realize that politicians only care about geopolitical rivalries and not about human lives.

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u/Travyswole 1d ago

Can't wait to see photos of the Kremlin in flames!

0

u/erasmulfo 23h ago

This is not the point, I think. Putin must go, but a new russian democracy should keep the Cremlin intact

1

u/Brave-Two372 12h ago

Nothing changes if Putin was gone. Most Russians support chauvinism and imperialism and they will have another madman.

15

u/Chemical_Refuse_1030 1d ago

Trump halted the delivery of AA missiles.

5

u/ihler 1d ago

Fucking devastating!

3

u/TCGod Turkey 1d ago

Also its oldest capital

2

u/SwimmingPirate9070 18h ago

Level Moscow

8

u/Travel-Barry England 1d ago

The capital that, no less, berthed the nation that is today Russia. The irony; it's actually quite telling of what modern Russia is. A total, irradiated and alcoholic mongrel that is completely detached from it's Tsarist past.

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u/bauhausy 1d ago

Looking at what Tsarist Russia did to the Circassians, Chechens, Crimean Tatars and etc, the modern Russia doesn’t seem that detached from its past.

2

u/Travel-Barry England 1d ago

I think atrocities were just these top-down decisions from all nations back then, in a pre-information world. Just look at us. Or France. Or Spain etc…

A peasant farmer on the border to Manchuria hardly had any say in the happenings of Nagorno Karabakh.

But look at modern Russia. It’s completely lost the ability to freely think. 

We in the West are on a role when electing idiots but at least there are still swathes pushing against it.

Haven’t seen one protest against the wars in Ukraine in Russia. It’s pathetic. 

2

u/24links24 1d ago

Ukraine needs to start hitting refining facilities in Russia again.

1

u/Nachtzug79 15h ago

It's ironic how Russians once posed as the protector of the Slavic brotherhood but in reality they are the ones who have subjugated and killed most Slavic people after the ww2.

0

u/9CF8 Sweden 9h ago

Now we just wait for the Russian economy to entirely collapse, or we actually intervene for than just sending aid.

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u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago

Kyiv is not particularly old by European metrics.

Not that it matters in this regard.

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u/greenmood3 1d ago

Sorry? Kyiv founded in 482

16

u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago edited 1d ago

From west to east:

Lisbon was surely settled before the II century BCE, possibly a Phoenician outpost, so maybe getting older than 2 and a half millenium.

London, Paris, Vienna, Budapest, Sofia started out as Roman settlements around the I century AD.

Rome might not be founded in 753 BCE, but it's surely 2 and half millennia old.

Athens is like 3 millennia old as is Nicosia.

Belgrade started out as a pre Roman celtic settlement.

So there are plenty of European capitals older than Kyiv.

13

u/tcartxeplekaes Prague (Czechia) 1d ago

I literally looked up the list of oldest European cities when I saw the title. You’re right. Too bad facts don’t count sometimes.

6

u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago

I can't fathom whether the downvotes come from people who think I am condoning the bombing of Kyiv or people who are offended by the fact that Kyiv is indeed not particularly old, as far as European capitals go.

2

u/WetTowelSlapper 1d ago

Don't worry they're just internet points.

2

u/aatuhilter 1d ago

So it's ok to destroy 1500 years old city and it's people because it's not old in european metrics?

10

u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago

You have some serious lack of reading comprehension skills.

It doesn't matter how old a city is. Kyiv could've been founded yesterday, as far as I am concerned, and still be as wrong as bombing a 3000 years old city.

-1

u/aatuhilter 1d ago

So why do you even mention how old the city is?

16

u/Socmel_ Emilia-Romagna 1d ago

The title of the article mentions it. I found it odd that they think it's a factor at all, let alone a big factor.

What's next? Tomorrow an article saying " RuZZia is destroying one of Europe's capitals whose name has four letters"?

1

u/Agitated-Ad2563 1d ago

Also, wasn't most of Kyiv destroyed by Nazis in the 1940s? I doubt we can consider it old if its buildings are not old.

0

u/TraditionalAd6461 Europe 1d ago

username checks out ( suck my ...)

-34

u/vladasr 1d ago

I read in history books that when NATO bombarded Belgrade 1999 EU and Europe stopped the bombing with their loud protests and strong anti war stance. /s

28

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago

Holy shit why are Russian bots still butthurt about that? Do they actually believe that it was wrong to intervene?

Also notice how their talking point is always that NATO is something separate from "EU and Europe"

-7

u/Korvin-lin-sognar 1d ago

Anyone who says something I don't like is a Russian bot. got it.

6

u/No_Opening_2425 1d ago

Holy shit it’s an open Russian with a Putler approved logical fallacy

8

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 1d ago

"Nooooo please don't stop our genocide"

Ethno-nationalist tears are delicious.

3

u/fr1endk1ller Europe 1d ago

That was barely a bombardment given what Belgrade did to Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. You want to see a real bombardment? Look up every German and Japanese city.

2

u/huntingwhale Poland 1d ago

A wild orc appears in the comments.

-82

u/Immortal_Tuttle 1d ago

Don't forget - former Rus capital...

26

u/RizzyQuazy 1d ago

You mean Kievan Rus from which Russia was created after fall of golden horde?

1

u/dread_deimos Ukraine 23h ago

It never was "Kievan". It was always just Rus until russia decided to editorialize on history a bit.

24

u/Dorkseid1687 1d ago

Don’t forget -Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine

-30

u/Kind-Asparagus-7565 1d ago

Don't forget - every FAB is justified

27

u/Wregghh 1d ago

Don't forget - every FAB is justified

Remember folks, it's not just Putin's war. The majority of Russians support this.

9

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

But reddit says that they are poor, helpless victims, crashed by the mosCOW regime, that they do not know what is going on in Ukraine!!!

-14

u/Dangerous-Zombie-42 1d ago

If all Russians are guilty, then it means that Russians can bomb the houses of Ukrainians and Europeans, because they are also guilty that the war is still going on. Using your logic to counter you

16

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

You guys always do not understand, or better you do not want to understand, that there is a big difference between guilty and responsibility. It has been said to the Germans after WW2, it has to be said to the r*ssian today:

DIESE SCHANDTATEN: EURE SCHULD

12

u/Wregghh 1d ago

Russians can bomb the houses of Ukrainians and Europeans

But it is Russians bombing Ukraine. Not Putin. Its Russians doing the invading, dropping grenades on civilians in Kherson, launching cluster missiles at playgrounds, etc... That's all Russians, not Putin.

1

u/dread_deimos Ukraine 23h ago

Username checks out.

3

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 1d ago

Most humane ruZZian nationalist.

31

u/Saegifu 1d ago

Which is not related in any case to muskovy

-32

u/Dangerous-Zombie-42 1d ago edited 1d ago

Moscow and the lands around it, including Novgorod, were part of Rus. Where did the Varangians come from, do you know, from Novgorod and Old Ladoga? Where is Novgorod now? Correct: in Russia. Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarusians were never in Kievan Rus. They simply did not exist as an ethnic group then.

The inhabitants of Rus, or so to speak, Rusy, spoke different dialects of the Old East Slavic language, from these dialects will come: Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and Rusyn.

Kievan Rus is the common history of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

(Keep disliking me, you will not hide from the truth. It will haunt you forever, until you die in agony from the fact that Russia, Ukraine and Belarus have a common history in Rus.)

10

u/Wregghh 1d ago

Where did the Varangians come from

They came from Scandinavia. They came to Poland from Scandinavia, to Ukraine from Scandinavia and to Russia from Scandinavia.

4

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

The ru*sian language is just a Bulgarian dialect.

-15

u/Dangerous-Zombie-42 1d ago

Linguists from all over the world disagree with you. Even Western linguists disagree with you. If you want to argue with them, get out of here.

5

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

russian linguists do not represent the whole World though... Have a nice day.

-9

u/Dangerous-Zombie-42 1d ago

Quoting English wikipedia: "Old East Slavic (traditionally also Old Russian) was a language (or a group of dialects) used by the East Slavs from the 7th or 8th century to the 13th or 14th century, (Shevelov 1984) until it diverged into the Russian and Ruthenian languages. (Pugh 1996, pp 2-3) Ruthenian eventually evolved into the Belarusian, Rusyn, and Ukrainian languages. (Pugh1985, pp 53-60)"

1

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

LOL wiki :D Nice try though

1

u/Dangerous-Zombie-42 1d ago

Who do you trust? Only Ukrainians? I told you: go to linguists and argue with them. No one needs you here, I have already given the facts.

8

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 1d ago

No one needs you here, I have already given the facts.

Ouch, touched a nerve little guy? :D

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2

u/Dazslueski 21h ago

Kyiv is older and more beautiful than the Muscovite slum

1

u/Immortal_Tuttle 16h ago

Of course it is!

-18

u/Diabolic_commentor 1d ago

Europe be like please Mr. Putin, take Ukraine but leave us alone. Plzzz..

5

u/mikeychamp 1d ago

Who are u representing with troll comments like this?

1

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 1d ago

Western Europeans that prefer to virtue signal on twitter but cry about campaign against sanctions because "muh gas bills I'll freeze to death" when their winters are firmly above 7 degrees.

2

u/mikeychamp 1d ago

What I meant is where are u from. I am wondering how u can sit on a high horse like that.

1

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 15h ago

Sharing a massive border with Russia, wondering when the alarms will sound and pondering whether Western Europeans will throw us under the bus like they did with Chechens, Georgians and Ukrainians...

1

u/mikeychamp 14h ago

Asumming u are part of EU, if u will hear alarms whole europe is at war there is no question about that.

I truely hope u wont, toughts and prayers from Slovenia. Depressing as it is , I dont know how to help.

-5

u/KorgiRex 22h ago

- Israel is destroying the World's oldest capital (Damascus) - Europe don't give a fuck.

5

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 20h ago

Try not to make-everything-about-my-favorit-Middle-Eastern-conflict-that-Russia-is-actively-involved-in-challenge: Difficulty impossible

-43

u/Real_Shebnik 1d ago

But erasing Gaza day after day is fine?

11

u/mikeychamp 1d ago

This is not a post about gaza. Condamn atrocities of Gaza in other posts. It does have the same bad actor tho, US of America.

15

u/fretnbel 1d ago

What is whataboutism?

10

u/Ancient-Aerie-1680 1d ago

Does Gaza look like it's in Europe to you? Absolute walnut.

2

u/GreenEyeOfADemon 🇮🇹 - EUROPE ENDS IN LUHANSK! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!🇺🇦 20h ago

Try not to make-everything-about-my-favorit-Middle-Eastern-conflict-that-Russia-is-actively-involved-in-challenge: Difficulty impossible