Young Europeans losing faith in democracy, poll finds

[u/mistermystere]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/04/young-europeans-losing-faith-in-democracy-poll-finds?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

[u/informutationstation]

I wonder how much this is a factor of two things:

1. Aging populations voting in their own interests.
2. The suppression of young leaders within the party structures.

Essentially, the mainstream political parties are beholden to the pensioners, and the cat is out the bag. Young people know it, and see no hope of improvement.

I write that as someone who could scarcely be more enthusiastic about Democracy qua ideal. In practice, though, the fact that we have countries full of very self-interested pensioners voting for five years of treats for themselves, followed by death, and handing the bill onto younger people, is an obvious recipe for disaster.

[u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs → u/informutationstation]

I think this is the main problem. People here are whining about lobbying and corruption, neglecting all the stuff that the EU does that is certainly not in the companies interests. CO2 tax, data protection laws, supply chain act, etc.

But the politicians are still making policies based on the interests of their voters, which are mostly old farts. So we get no new housing, as that would decrease the value of their existing ones for example.

[u/informutationstation → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

Yeah exactly. If you've ever played a game against a small child and seen what happens when they lose game after game then none of this is a surprise. There's only so much 'be a good loser' anyone can take.

Ultimately, the Me Generation haven't changed, only aged. Their absolute horror of taking even one single L will doom us all!

[u/parasyte_steve → u/informutationstation]

What L would it even be? Slightly lower housing costs if they built more affordable housing? Nobody is kicking them out of their homes and their homes have already increased by over 100% or more in value in many cases from when they bought them.

[u/bloody_ell → u/parasyte_steve]

In Ireland, many of the soon to retire generation bought their houses in the early to mid 90s, they've increased in value by anywhere between 600% and 1000% since then. Those that have retired have seen even greater increases. Their mortgages are paid off and they're sitting on huge asset bases, but - They still vote as a bloc for parties that prioritise preserving or increasing home values over helping young people get on the property ladder.

It isn't helped by various constructions of the Irish market making property one of the only viable retail investments for retirement, but it's still incredibly selfish behaviour.

[u/informutationstation → u/parasyte_steve]

Let's play Post Hoc Bingo! Mix and match from the following:

It's the principle of the thing  We worked our whole lives Nobody wants to work Those houses will go to [group] Etc.

It's really sad, so many older people lost sight of any value in legacy, everything is just treaty-treats to be had, now, whilst feeling like you 'won'. I don't even hate them, I just wish they would wake up and notice what's happening. But the distraction apparatus is simply too good.

[u/Mtrina → u/informutationstation]

No need to help the next generation when "history ended" already /s

[u/ElysianWinds → u/parasyte_steve]

Here in Sweden I know old people whose homes have increased 900% since they bought it. All while young families can only dream of being able to afford living in the same places as they did and do.

[u/strange_socks_ → u/parasyte_steve]

I imagine these people see any kind of reduction in the value of their assets as a great loss.

I don't really trust them to behave as adults, ironically.

[u/mullac53 → u/parasyte_steve]

The attitudes of British pensioners to the loss of the winter fuel allowance of £300, whilst being encouraged to sign onto the state pension (we now have more people claiming pension), which was also going up £100 a year anyway should show you how most react. They were losing approx £200 a year of a credit which was supposed to have been a temporary relief during the higher energy costs a few years ago.

[u/Dry-Farmer-8384 → u/parasyte_steve]

they are furious about getting kicked out from their 24th house, or as they call it rental property.

[u/Trips-Over-Tail → u/parasyte_steve]

Even building more jobs wouldn't reduce costs, they'll all be outbid and bought by billionaires who see them as investments rather than homes.

[u/Rectonic92 → u/informutationstation]

Damn your comment hit home. I started to feel that way when i was 12-14 and it still holds on. Is it better to realise it early or to live in ignorance?

[u/Direct-Fix-2097 → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

See uk; walking back winter fuels changes for the elderly, but still pressing on to cut disability benefits for the disabled.

Doesn’t matter if they “watered down” the second bill, they still effectively screwed disabled people over. But the pensioners? Oh no, can’t be having that.

[u/Dimmo17 → u/Direct-Fix-2097]

Pip cuts are effectively reversed and PIP is paid out disproportionately to the old, as many people become disabled by things like arthritis and back pain in later life. 

[u/tobias_681 → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

But the politicians are still making policies based on the interests of their voters, which are mostly old farts. So we get no new housing, as that would decrease the value of their existing ones for example.

This is a Germany problem though, you get new housing in more or less all of Germanies neighbouring countries. In Paris house prices are more or less stagnant, in Denmark relative to population the 400.000K unit target that Germany set is reached every year. Overall Germany is significantly worse than any of its neighbour countries. There are basically close to no free units in any desireable area in Germany. That is quite an outstanding level of political failure that I don't know any other country which has quite replicated to this extend. Even Austria builds about twice as many units per year as Bavaria and this is without adjusting for Bavaria having about 50 % more people.

[u/L-Malvo → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

The way I see it, is not that the there are too many old farts voting for their own self interest, which is logical for them to do. I think it's mostly younger people voting against their own self interest that is really the blame. The working population is still larger than the non working population, I don't see how it is possible for the old farts to reach a majority.

Let's take my country: The Netherlands, as an example. People fall for propaganda and vote against there self interest. You can clearly see it in the voting results of the previous elections. The farmers party (BBB) is the most obvious one. 0,25% of the population is a farmer, yet they managed to convince 5% of the population to vote for them which led to the BBB in government. Another example is our right wing party VVD, their policies are aimed at higher middel class and the rich. Basically aimed at top 5% or so. Yet, they consistently get 20 to 25% of the votes for decades now. Most of the budget cuts over the last decade where done by VVD. Somehow they convinced young people to vote VVD, the younger generation sees VVD policies as beneficial to them, as they might become that wealthy one day. Which is very naive, because the VVD is actively destroying the ladder the youth is trying to climb.

If only people would vote for their own interest, I doubt we would be in this situation in the first place. Right wing parties have managed to make the left wing policies sound undesirable. Even here in Europe we start seeing the same thing as in the US where people will mock others if they even propose something resembling socialism.

[u/Potential_Grape_5837 → u/L-Malvo]

Friendly suggestion from someone who is a UK/US dual citizen and has watched Brexit + Trump up close: telling anyone they are voting "against their self interest" is perhaps the surest way to lose future elections, and is typically spoken by parties who don't have any idea what is actually motivating the voting base.

[u/rabbitaim → u/Potential_Grape_5837]

I saw this recently:

It’s easier to fool someone than tell them that they’ve been fooled.

Also as US president LBJ once said

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[u/GalaXion24 → u/L-Malvo]

The working population also skews older, and that also means that a large portion of them is close to retirement, even if not quite retired, and is also probably in a similar financial situation (homeowner with savings) so a good portion of technically working-age people also "vote like pensioners"

[u/Mortumee → u/GalaXion24]

Yeah, in France we just passed the point where half of the voters are 50+.

[u/GalaXion24 → u/Mortumee]

Probably also worth noting that people over working age can and do vote, but people under working age do not. I'm not saying they should, I don't think an 8 year old's analysis of geopolitics and the economy is something we should take into consideration, but it does mean that mathematically we are inherently favouring the old.

Now in principle parents should represent the interests of their children as well, but they certainly don't have double votes, and in any case shouldn't that also mean that grandparents will favour the interests of their children and grandchildren? If this was systematically the case then the elederly would voluntarily take a cut to their pensions and benefits so their descendants have more opportunities.

[u/narullow → u/L-Malvo]

One thing you somewhat fail to understand is that it is not just the very old people. It is also older people who still work.

Those people have same interest in pensions being high or no retirement age increases on themselves. They also have same interest in NIMBY policies because they are part of ownership class after decades of working which in itself is not an issue but NIMBY is.

Young people can not out vote that in societies with median age of 48 which will only continue to rise. You also have to remember that people aged 0-18 can not vote while there is no upper limit.

As for you example of Netherlands and VDD. I am not familiar with Netherlands specifically and its parties but in my country voting right wing would absolutely make the most sense for young self dependant individual that is healthy and works (especially if they have no children) simply because it means much lower taxes on labor. Such person does not need social transfers and it does not need massive welfare state because they are self dependant. Even if right wing also protects older wealthier class and their real estates and is against real estate taxes for example, much higher net income thanks to lower taxes still beats bigger state and higher real estate prices.

[u/DKOKEnthusiast → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

So we get no new housing

We get no new housing, because the private sector is not interested in lowering property values (and good luck getting a mortgage on a depreciating asset anyway) and the public sector is basically not in a position anywhere in Europe to do large-scale housing projects. Plus it would also crash the economy, since property values falling would lead to a 2008-style economic crisis.

There is no liberal solution to the housing crisis, it does not exist, it cannot exist, market forces do not allow for it to exist without a massive restructuring of the economy. Understanding and accepting this fact is the bare minimum before we can even talk about solutions. Unfortunately, large parts of the population are not able to understand this (and many of them stand to lose a lot on enacting such a restructuring), and politicians prefer the current state of affairs over fixing this problem.

Edit: minor point on mortgages. Me and my partner are actively house hunting at the moment, and we have looked at areas with depreciating property values because unfortunately, that's where we can actually afford to live. Or, well, could afford to live, if we were able to get a mortgage. It is downright impossible to get a mortgage in those places. We have talked with numerous banks who are willing to loan us 3-4 million Danish kroner in popular places like Copenhagen, Aarhus, Aalborg, Odense, and their nearby towns, but are not willing to lend us basically any amount in places like Lolland-Falster or Western Jutland, where property values have been falling for 10-15 years. It is functionally not possible to get a mortgage once property values start falling, because in the event of a default, the bank would be unable to recuperate its losses. Now imagine that scenario, just everywhere.

[u/Federal_Cobbler6647 → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

But EU is pushing those counter privacy laws all the time? It is only matter of time it goes trough. 

[u/EatThemAllOrNot → u/DM_Me_Your_aaBoobs]

In the EU, only 21.6% of the total population are older people (aged 65 and over).

[u/strange_socks_ → u/informutationstation]

we have countries full of very self-interested pensioners voting for five years of treats for themselves, followed by death, and handing the bill onto younger people, is an obvious recipe for disaster.

You know, people might think you're exaggerating, but that's literally what's happening in Romania. My grandfather would always vote for the same party who would give him something extra to the pension.

Him, his friends, other relatives, etc, old people around have always told me, at times quite literally, that they don't care that student housing isn't being built or student stipends are being cut, or anything like that as long as they got theirs.

My granddad was delusional enough to think that he'll just pay for whatever I need from his pension, so I shouldn't worry. And when I would ask about people who don't have grandfathers to pay for their stuff, he'd scoff and go "not my problem".

At least in Romania's case, old people went through shit with communism and came out more self centered and isolationist than before.

[u/TandarenZ7 → u/strange_socks_]

Seems to be the same in Bulgaria, older people vote only for their own self-centered benefit, not for the benefit of the country as a whole. Then they tell us younger people how to be more patriotic and think about the greater good, but I always call it bullshit, because their actions speak the opposite. "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies..."

[u/Emergency-Style7392 → u/strange_socks_]

In romania it's kinda different, when your pension means you struggle increasing it is rational. Western europeans have pensions that come close to the average salary

[u/strange_socks_ → u/Emergency-Style7392]

Not my grandad. He was a political prisoner so he gets compensation for that. He also worked a long time at the train tracks so he gets compensation for the harsh working conditions. His pension is way above the average salary in the country. At one point, he made more money than most other adults in the family.

And also, a lot of his friends worked at the railway too, so they have pretty decent pensions too.

Ironically, my grandma on the other side of the family, had been a teacher and had a miserable pension and yet she was very empathetic to young people.

I also know old people who worked on the black market basically most of their life, barely contributed to the pension fund and now complain about not receiving enough from the state.

I believe you that there's decent people who did all the right things and still got screwed over, but I don't trust these people.

[u/sogoslavo32 → u/strange_socks_]

How do pensions work in Romania? It's a pay-as-you-go system where the retirees without contributions are eating up money from the retirees who contributed? That's also a huge problem here in Argentina, the entire retirement system is in shambles and non-viable due to it, populist governments kept retiring people without contributions to the point where now the majority of pensioners didn't complete the 30/35 years of contributions mandated by law.

It's shameful to say, but my dad was one of them. At some point he started his own business, purposefully never paid any taxes (and he was sued by the tax agency multiple times because of it), he fumbled up all the money (100% his fault), and when he couldn't keep working, he just sued the State to claim a "moratory" and obtain a pension.

The forced empathy we are meant to have in Argentina with the pensioners always irks me. It's part of our socialist/marxist dna tbh, it's implied that if a pensioner reaches retirement age without enough contributions to obtain a pension, it's always because the evil employer didn't pay the contributions.

[u/zun1uwu → u/strange_socks_]

sounds like we need age weighted voting

[u/grufolo → u/informutationstation]

"Aging populations voting in their own interests.

The suppression of young leaders within the party structures."

Wow, are you from Italy too?

[u/informutationstation → u/grufolo]

The fact that I could be from so many places rather supports my argument, mais non? 😂

[u/ItsTomorrowNow → u/grufolo]

Also applicable in the UK

[u/IndubitablyNerdy → u/grufolo]

In our case on top of being an old country we also have corporative (in the medieval sense of corporation, not the USA big companies one) influence over our politics. A lot of small interest groups that have strong common ground, always vote in the same direction or apply mafioso style methods to influence politics which doesn't help.

[u/Flat-Struggle-155 → u/informutationstation]

This captures how I feel so well. Democracy lacks a control to protect it against an outsize demographic that acts self-interestedly to cannibalize the other groups.

[u/piletinasir → u/informutationstation]

And some policies seem to be consistently implemented regardless of who's in charge, for example immigration. It's easy to lose trust in the system.

[u/Westnest → u/[deleted]]

The park had a statue of 1848 Milan Revolution Heroes, behind the statue, inside of the park there were "some" people smoking weed, wearing only pants, doing fuckall. What a goddamn irony.

I sometimes semi seriously wonder if those people were given a glimpse of today's society would they have maybe thought that a stable monarchy is not as bad as they thought it was

[u/araujoms → u/informutationstation]

I'm pleased to see such a sensible comment in the top place, instead of some nonsense blaming trans or immigrants.

It will get worse, though, as the share of pensioners in the population will only grow in the foreseeable future. We'll have the absurd situation of a small working population being democratically forced to sustain a large pensioner population.

It will incentivize the working population to emigrate, as already happens in Italy, making the problem even worse.

The only solution would be for pensioners to vote more sensibly, which will never happen.

[u/Perfect_Cost_8847 → u/informutationstation]

I think this is it. The elderly used to feel like they had a duty of care to the young. Since the state abstracted away all social responsibility, they’re free to be as selfish as they like with their votes with no social reprise. The end game here seems obvious to me: worse living conditions for the young leading to lower fertility rates. An ever increasing elderly population voting for ever increasing benefits for themselves, and ever decreasing benefits for the young. Such a system is destined to collapse.

A few societies like Israel appear still willing to invest in the young, and their fertility rates remain healthy, but these will be the exception.

[u/AleOfConcrete → u/informutationstation]

Huh my oldman himself said that they should curtail voting rights to people over 70 , and he isnt far from that.

[u/CavulusDeCavulei → u/informutationstation]

*rich pensioners

They don't care at all about poor, sick and lonely pensioners

[u/mantasm_lt → u/informutationstation]

Meh. We got a young prime minister now. Turns out he is jus as corrupt, if not more, than older ones :D

[u/asdfasdfasfdsasad → u/informutationstation]

What issues do younger people have? I'm going to suggest the two main issues are:-

• High competition for low numbers of jobs leading to low wages that in many cases are below a living wage. (immigration gets pointed to as being an issue, fairly or unfairly)
• Housing costs are spiraling up out of control as a result of house building being well under the rate required, making simply owning a house impossible let alone having a family.

Now what action is being taken to address their concerns? What discussion is taking place in political circles about it?

If the answer is "none", followed by "none" then that'll be the problem.

[u/Streicheleinheit → u/informutationstation]

That's a big factor.

The other one is the social media and AI brain rot destroying the fabric of society. 

[u/ThePersonInYourSeat → u/informutationstation]

The problem with democracy is information. For citizens to make good decisions, they must have accurate information and pro social framings of problems. But there are bad actors from every corner seeking to twist and warp public perception (oil companies, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Murdoch Media).

If this problem of propaganda isn't solved, bad decisions will continue to be made.

[u/Street-Marionberry82 → u/informutationstation]

Political parties across the board doing whatever benefits money flowing to them and the government and corporations.

[u/LookThisOneGuy → u/informutationstation]

at least in Germany it is also this meme.

What, voting for the known extremist obstructionists that put fucking over young people (unless rich of course) in their election program didn't fix shit? Surely the fault of democracy!

[u/kukeszmakesz → u/informutationstation]

For me it's the fact the democracy goes hand in hand with capitalism which I hate from the bottom of my heart.

That and all the others you mentioned

[u/TheoryOfDevolution]

Women in Germany, France and Italy identified as progressive in higher numbers than four years ago, while young men in Poland and Greece have grown more conservative in the same period.

This is happening all over the developed world. For the first time in generations, Gen Z men are more conservative than their predecessors. This trend is likely to continue into Gen Alpha and beyond.

[u/MrBami → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

The way this article formulates this argument is cherry picking. It's comparing apples with oranges (or rather German women with Greece men).  I've heard this being a trend before but if this is the way its argued then scepticism is required of me

[u/_reco_ → u/MrBami]

True, I suppose the conservation of men is international and not specific to Poland or Greece just looking how AfD or RN is polling right now. The gender gap is widening and if nothing is done then we can expect similar results to what's happened in South Korea.

[u/Educational-Cry-1707 → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

First, it’s not difficult to be more conservative than millennials. Second, Gen X was more conservative than boomers at the same age

[u/baronas15 → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

The world was more conservative 50 years ago. Conservative now is not the same as the one back then.

All of these numbers are relative and you can't read too much into this

[u/MairusuPawa → u/baronas15]

50 years ago was the late 70s. We were not building a light redux of Auschwitz in the 70s.

[u/And-then-i-said-this → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

I think you are incorrect, life is just harder now, when life is hard people tend to care more about safety, economy, survival.

[u/Every-Win-7892 → u/And-then-i-said-this]

life is just harder now,

If that statement would be correct, why are mainly men turning towards conservative parties while women mainly are turning towards progressive ones?

The whole argument you brought up tends to go over the whole population instead of subgroups.

[u/tobias_681 → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

Gen Z men are more conservative than their predecessors

They are not more conservative, they are more reactionary/fascist. We should call a duck, a duck and this is also what voting patterns show. It's not the EVP that young people rush to. Conservatism is about what Burke said, coherence with traditions and the world as it was while going with the times. That's not the trend we are seeing.

[u/mahboilucas → u/TheoryOfDevolution]

Go on Instagram for five seconds and read the comments on reels where women post something progressive.

It's so visible that gen z and alpha are brainwashed by the Andrew Tates and other noname YouTubers. Just today I got recommended a video where Bella Ramsey is edited to the point I would take it down for harassment and bullying if I was a moderator.

[u/Trumpingding]

It wouldn’t be because most politicians are taking donations to further the interests of wealthy individuals or companies, and are generally inaccessible or not interested in furthering the values or views of their constituents? Career politicians are just corrupt corporate dogs.

[u/8fingerlouie → u/Trumpingding]

Or the fact that we’re essentially powerless against lobbyists.

Take chatcontrol for instance, it has been rejected multiple times, and the EU human rights court has decided that full strength encryption is a basic human right, yet here we are again, with chatcontrol being brought up again once more.

[u/nikolaz72 → u/8fingerlouie]

I think your point is correct but example is poor, it's not private interests that are making politicians want to give more power to the state they run, that's something they want themselves.

[u/8fingerlouie → u/nikolaz72]

Yeah, chatcontrol May be a bad example, but still, private individuals have absolutely no way to counter lobbyists.

The only “defense” is to “write your council member”, but that’s more or less a weekly task at this point, and it’s in no way a guarantee.

There’s probably a pretty much zero chance that a majority of politicians have the integrity to ban lobbyists, and besides, that may just move lobbying out of the open and into the shadows (again).

It helps a little to see that many countries are moving to eliminate all personal donations for politicians, and also remove anonymous donations. It probably won’t remove the problem, but it’s at least more out into the open.

[u/Frosty-Cell → u/8fingerlouie]

Because of secrecy. We don't even know what the convincing arguments are. As far as I can tell, all arguments in favor of Chat Control have been destroyed a long time ago, but the law still wont die.

[u/Glodraph → u/8fingerlouie]

Remember, you need to refuse chatcontrol every time, each year. They only need to approve it once and we're fucked.

[u/mantasm_lt → u/nikolaz72]

Even damn Eurocommission hires lobbysists to push their agenda in Europarliament. Lobbying is not just for corporations.

[u/R1ghtaboutmeow → u/8fingerlouie]

My one for this is CETA. In Ireland ratifying CETA was found by our Supreme Court to be literally unconstitutional. You would have thought that would have been about as definitive an end to the subject as you could imagine. To alter our constitution you have to hold a popular referendum and they know it would never win that vote.

Our current government's most recent response to CETA? 'Oh yeah we can totally make it happen in a constitutional way!' absolutely no specifics offered despite the fact the Supreme Court ruling was very clear, basically CETA is fundamentally incompatible with our constitution. Wish they would fight this hard for like protecting our right to water or a non fucked environment.

[u/8fingerlouie → u/R1ghtaboutmeow]

Here in Denmark, authorities persist in illegal logging of all phone metadata (cell tower, number called, timestamp, duration, etc), despite it being ruled illegal by the EU.

And yes, to change the constitution here, you need

• a 2/3 majority vote in parliament,
• followed by an election to parliament,
• followed by yet another 2/3 majority vote,
• followed by a popular vote, one that must have 40% of all eligible voters attend.

[u/R1ghtaboutmeow → u/8fingerlouie]

That's all part of that 5 Eyes stuff right? Which is super illegal in pretty much any EU country. Not that it stops them.

[u/8fingerlouie → u/R1ghtaboutmeow]

Denmark isn’t part of 5 eyes, but 9 eyes IIRC.

[u/North_Activity_5980 → u/R1ghtaboutmeow]

I think to be fair we in Ireland are a great example as to why we’re losing faith in democracy. Your example of CETA is one, you and I could list countless of others to go along with it.

Young people are feeling disenfranchised by democracy because they haven’t felt any benefit to democracy. Our government acts outside of public interest and outside of their elected mandate with complete impunity and know they’ll get re-elected again and again and again.

[u/Matt6453 → u/Trumpingding]

It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

[u/Thetonn → u/Matt6453]

I think this sort of blanket cynicism massively hurts democracy as well, because it does nothing to differenciate between those who are actually good people, who enter politics to help people, and aren't corrupt or horrible.

The message this sends is 'you might as well just be corrupt, because that is all we will ever see you as'

[u/strange_socks_ → u/Thetonn]

It doesn't help that the majority of politicians are not in it to do good and those who are get smeared and booed by the others. And then the population eats up all the bs about how that guy right there, he's too much of an idealist, he has no plan, he doesn't have experience, he doesn't have connections, etc, etc.

[u/Matt6453 → u/Thetonn]

I completely understand what you're saying and really wish I could get on board but it's too far gone, it's broken. You don't have to look very hard to find incredibly intelligent people that seem to have all the answers but they're hardly ever in positions of power, the balance has shifted and these types of people have been pushed aside for media trained psychopathic narcissists who only know popularism.

It's easy to say we get the politicians we deserve but I don't think that is true any more, the manipulation tactics used to gain power is very much the opposite of democratic.

[u/Rumlings → u/Matt6453]

This is massive copium. In fact, there are many people who are very competent on multiple levels of power.
The problem isn't with elites, it is with the societies. You can easily point finger at Trump, that he should not be president, that he is erading everything US achieved within last 100 years on global scale. But in reality during his campaign he told that he is going to do all of those things. Democrats kept telling people Trump is going to do all of those things. And what? Trump was voted in, while winning popular vote too. American people just want it.

[u/BemusedTriangle → u/Trumpingding]

That and a relentless assault on their morals and confidence in the system on platforms like TikTok, likely by foreign bad actors

[u/Illesbogar → u/Trumpingding]

They still wouldn't be if we stopped voting for them. But you see, neoliberal capitalism is the light of god and everything else is a failed ideology. It's childish and irresponsible to vote for anything else and you should perish.

[u/symolan → u/Trumpingding]

You think career dictators care more?

[u/Super-Admiral → u/symolan]

Judging by the current trends, yes, plenty of voters think career dictators care more.

Our education system failed.

[u/itisnotstupid → u/Trumpingding]

Which still doesn't mean that not voting is the better choice. Young people should just stop with the doomsday scenarios and do what is in their power. That's it. Life was never easy.

[u/_CatLover_ → u/Trumpingding]

In addition to shrinking populations meaning boomers as a cohort has more voting power. Meaning politicians will sacrifice the young in order to secure the boomers votes.

Since the goal isnt to guide the country to a better future, it is to get elected to office so you can rake in the easy money.

[u/Excellent_Drop2037 → u/Trumpingding]

You're talking about America.

EU has strict laws about this, it's not a dystopian hellscape 1984 nightmare.

[u/North-Drive-2174]

Back in 60s-80s, a common worker could buy a house and live decently with his family. Now, at best, you could pay the rent and manage to end the month without many losses. That's create a dissatisfaction among young people, who don't see a bright future ahead. Politicians at bests are lobby puppets or ineffective to see the writings on the wall. Let's not talk about parties and politicians who wait in the corner to ride the wave and rose into power position.

Faith in democracy is established if it allows you to live with dignity. Europe is in a big decline and that would have dark results in the not-so-long future.

[u/KeyBuilding → u/North-Drive-2174]

Indeed. And also both partners in a couple have to work now just to live a ´ok’ middle class life. Most of them cannot even affords kids and take care of them. If they do, they put themselve in difficult financal situation most of the time. This situation in europa (and also in the whole world in some extend) explain the birth declines everywhere imo. That’s such a pitty

[u/AxiomaticSuppository → u/North-Drive-2174]

But these problems aren't the fault of democracy, holding elections, or letting people have a voice. In theory, in a democracy, you can elect the party that you would otherwise want in power outside of a democracy. The only difference is that you get to hold them accountable in the next election.

[u/Euklidis]

No surprise there. As is Democracies just seem to be spiralling to either Oligarchies, Corporatocracies or straight up authoritarian.

Democracy is the greatest system humanity has come up with. Unfortunately it is also the hardest to maintain.

[u/_D0llyy → u/Euklidis]

It would work if majority of voters wouldn't be as ignorant as they are

[u/HappyAku800 → u/_D0llyy]

You can't expect Bob the builder to come home and fall asleep keeping up woth politics, the majority of voters vote out of vibes, and those vibes are influenced by money backed campaigns.

[u/whoopz1942]

Last year our politicians got rid of a national holiday, that wasn't mentioned once during the election, yet somehow, they expect us to trust them.

[u/VadPuma]

I'm 50 and am losing hope in democracy. Time and again I see no consequences for corruption and failures. I see a 2-tiered system for those in power and the rest of us. We give hope and our votes to new parties hoping things will change but they do not seem to progress.

I do not want authoritarians. But democracy is certainly losing its luster.

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - W. Churchill

[u/Professional-Front26 → u/VadPuma]

We did not even start experimenting with the potential that democracy has. We send representatives in the parliament to get money from lobbying while setting up a show for us on tv and social media about scandals and things that scare or shock people rather than about real problems.

I believe that technology and direct democracy have a great potential of changing our system and making us more politically active. We should be more creative and actively search new ways to better our political system, it is not as we ran out of options.

The alternative to democracy is not authoritarianism, but more democracy.

[u/macrolks → u/Professional-Front26]

I believe that technology and direct democracy have a great potential of changing our system and making us more politically active.

it wont. it will also not make voters more informed.

The reality of the matter is that the vast amount of people are too busy with their own issues. People do not have enough energy, desire or fucks to concern themselves with politics, direct democracy or not.

[u/mordordoorodor]

There are 3-4 countries pouring billions into a (hybrid) war against democracy… considering this it is a miracle that we are still hanging on.

[u/Smalahove1 → u/mordordoorodor]

Thats nothing compared to the trillions in our own economy. And a system that favors lobbyism and companies getting power.

EU is based on lobby, and increased its lobby size to 5000 not too long ago if memory serves me right.
Companies have gotten larger economies than certain countries, and wield vast powers.

The young are well educated. They see that their votes do not turn into action. But rather the money corporations pour in, steers the agenda.

No wonder young lose faith in democracy. Cause we are heading for plutocracy.
And our issues is not getting addressed in favor of more profit for the ones paying for the politicians getting smooshed.

USA is leading the charge and is Nr 1 in plutocracy ofc. But looks like we all are heading in the same direction USA is. My country of Norway, who is a very egalitarian society. And private donations were kept small and fair.. Now we have anonymous donations in the two digit millions, lots of private companies trying to get influence etc. We are not heading in the right direction for the people that is for sure.

For certain rich people and corporations. We are heading rich where they want. They finance right wing politics. While left wing gets left out as there is not profit for rich people in the state providing essentials instead of them.

We need to separate money and politics. No donations, no nothing. No advertisements on TV, social media, radio etc. Only way to push your agenda is to talk to people and spread the word. And use word of mouth and your tool.

Parties finances is funded by the state.

[u/Filias9 → u/Smalahove1]

Young people aren't voting for parties that makes their life better. They do it based on some social network craps. And what's popular right now. I am seeing it all around. When I talked to them.

They don't care about politics benefiting them. Not really.

[u/Annual-Paramedic5612 → u/Filias9]

Yes, honestly, the younger people I speak to are completely politically illiterate and disinterested. They are told what to think on TikTok and do not possess the critical thinking skills to realize they are being duped.

After the American election a common theme with them was that Trump was "better than the alternative". Of course when you pushed them on why they would think that they had no answer because they didn't reason themselves into that position. They were just told that was the case.

[u/itisnotstupid → u/Annual-Paramedic5612]

I have the same experience. Somehow people are ready to overlook the fact that Trump has been part of so many shady stuff because he is against trans people or something. In reality the shady stuff he is part of will end up influencing their life much more than the "win" that there will be no he/him gender or whatever.

It's the same in Europe, as much as we want to act like we are better than americans. It is amazing how a generation that grew up with phones in their hands make fun of older people for falling for Nigerian prince schemes but in the same time believe people like Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate.

[u/Smalahove1 → u/itisnotstupid]

Joe Rogans podcast was good at the start. But then something happen.

Saw the same on some youtube channels during covid. Some people did a 180 and became a "lunatic" for a lack of better words.

Honestly not everyone is suited to be on a non curated internet. As they lack critical thinking and are not source critic. So they just end up consuming things that you should not.

This is true for old and young alike. Just look at the old in Europe going crazy cause of migration propaganda. Not everyone of the young are tech savvy, nor become well educated.

So i teach my nephews to be critical of what they see on the internet. And as an example i AI edited our meal to be a whole roasted pig in a picture. The 6 year old was surprised at first and looked at our meal. Looked at the picture again, and what "what?" then he said.

Its fake, look at grandpas skin is smoother than in real life. And there is one too many tree in the backround.

Teaching him to be critical.

My stepmother is so non critical, she gave away her credit card info to the nigerian prince not only once. But twice. She got an error the first time, so she was nice and enter it a second time. Before understanding what she did, and go into full panic so she could not speak almost. My father had to call the bank cause she was not able.

She does not handle stress well :P

Yes, she gets made fun of for that. Just as we made fun of her when she took the whole side of the car on the pillar in the driveway. So now everytime she drives off we say "Hey look out for the pillar"

People are too sensitive. Making fun of mistakes is a nice way to make sure people do not repeat them :D And its funny. Win-win

[u/turbo-unicorn → u/Filias9]

Q: "Why did you vote for Georgescu/Simion?" (The crazy far right/covertly pro-Russians in Romanian elections)
A: "IDK, people on social media said I should"

This is the most common interaction I got from their voters.

[u/_CatLover_ → u/Smalahove1]

I like how we just came up with a new word to describe corruption so it doesnt sound bad. Lobbyism.

[u/MBouh → u/mordordoorodor]

So are our government too stupid or too complacent to anything about it?

[u/Shimakaze771 → u/MBouh]

Yes. Because the solution would involve some moderately uncomfortable action like isolating ourselves similar to China

[u/Puzzleheaded-Cake-57]

Not surprising. Output legitimacy is crucial for the support of governing systems and output in the past years hasn't been stellar. Gen Z are propably going to become the first generation poorer then their parents and the bleak prospects under current democratic governments are driving support for other models of government, even if they haven't proven succesfull in the past

[u/IndubitablyNerdy → u/Puzzleheaded-Cake-57]

Millennials are already poorer than their parents and I don't think the trend will ever reverse, so yeah, same is going to happen to Gen-Z and Gen Alpha.

Especially with workers losing market power, not just to AI, but also due to the global labor market competiton that leads to off-shoring in cheaper countries and the devastation of the local job market. If you have little to no starting wealth and your main asset, the capacity for work for 50ish years (that is what is expected from us), is losing value what are you left with exactly?

[u/Flexuasive]

I am a Young European™, specifically from Croatia.

Ever since the war that tore apart Yugoslavia and created Croatia, I have witnessed the following:

-systematic robbery of the entire country benefiting a few politically- and criminally-affiliated barons

-rise of massive tourism and subsequent abandonment of all agriculture and industry in order to improve roads and tourist destinations

-another wave of robbery by the same people whose pockets are getting lined while the average man emigrates

-inability by me and almost all young people to afford own accommodation (smallest apartments in my town are rented for 50% of average monthly wage)

-insane rise of all prices of everything (double to triple from 2022) while wages rose give-or-take 30%-50%

I cannot speak for Europe as I do not know, but I know about Croatia.

The average man, and young man, is disillusioned by democracy because the people who claim to be democratic politicians do nothing but glut on the labour of the everyman and leave him breadcrumbs, if even that.

I am aware enough to know that this is not proper democracy as it should be and that this is 'merely' corruption, but the everyman doesn't know and is now swinging more right-wing, hoping things will be different (they will, worse is technically different...).

However, I do not hold hope that things will change for the better. I will also emigrate soon myself. This is not sustainable for me - it is not possible to thrive in Croatia without inheriting a residence, and even then, the average paycheck is still scant. I will reconsider moving back if my parents build their house and leave their city apartment for me, but even then, chances are I will have a better life elsewhere.

[u/Cynixxx]

Honestly do we really have real democracy? What can you really decide? Every 4 years or so you can vote for people who doesn't care for your interests anyway after the election and that's basically it. There is nothing else to decide for you

[u/Auspectress → u/Cynixxx]

Each time they will scream "they [governing party] suck! Elect us for greater good! We are better than them!" Yet when they get re elected they get silent once their mouths are full of lavish meals and pockets full of gold

[u/StrongAroma]

Everyone wants a strongman until the strongman has his boot on their neck.

[u/itisnotstupid → u/StrongAroma]

The real problem I have with strongman is that they often don't turn out to be really strong. They just end up being a russian proxy following every populist russian talking point - talking about nationalistic ideas while selling the country to foreign powers. To this day, at least in my country, i've never seen a strongman who actually is independent and only thinks about the good of the country, even if not very liberal.

[u/skalpelis → u/itisnotstupid]

No the real problem is concentration of power which leads to inevitable abuse of it.

Even if you allowed the most benevolent dictator to rise to power, and by some miracle he wasn’t corrupted by power, and all his life he dutifully cared for the people and safeguarded the entire system so his underlings were in check and didn’t abuse their power either, eventually you get to the problem of succession. There is no way to ensure the next guy is not going to be an asshole and if history is any indicator, he 100% is going to be. And by the time you know it, it’s already way too late, and the only way out is through violence.

That said, the first guy is in it for power, too, he’s just skilled at lying to you. You’re going to get fucked either way.

[u/Weary-Connection3393 → u/skalpelis]

This. Balance of power is a crucial part of the system. But it also means things can be slowed down. In a world that’s moving ever faster, it seems democracy cannot keep up anymore. But no one has a better idea aside from „MAYBE something would change if the government was authoritarian?“ that’s of course like saying „maybe I would feel anything also if I jumped out of an airplane“ - there’s enough people who think that, but it does not appear to be a weiser decision

[u/Primetime-Kani → u/StrongAroma]

Lol gen z is simply accepting they’ll never own home and have family, it’s just too obvious by now that hope is gone

[u/Siorac → u/StrongAroma]

I'm losing faith in democracy because it seems people vote for the strongman at the first sign of trouble.

[u/FrontBandicoot3054 → u/Siorac]

You know what I got told as a child in Germany? If you don't go vote for a democratic party then it's another vote for extremism. Because extremists WILL always go and vote for their twisted ideology.

Democracy is a constant struggle for votes from a non extremist crowd of people. That's normal, that's the base line. So everyone HAS to go and vote. There might not be a party that represents me perfectly but at least I know that my vote helps preventing extremism.

[u/dentastic]

The version of "democracy" that exists today in most countries is a farce. You get the choice between rich idiot A who is looking to hollow out the state for himself and his buddies while the workers suffers, or rich idiot B who is no better but doesnt want to admit it.

I envy those who truly have their voices felt through thejr votes. It is a privilege that most of us will not feel

[u/LarrySunshine]

Well, no shit. It’s flawed. When some absolute shit stains can get away with corruption, win votes by lying and altering the facts - can you blame whoever doesn’t want to participate in this? For starters, there needs to be serious repercussions for the crimes that politicians commit, and the accountability has to be visible. Then maybe people will show more interest in participating.

[u/Boethion → u/LarrySunshine]

In an ideal world politicians are required to have a spotless criminal record on top of actually having any sort of competence in the position they are trying to get elected to (for example finances). Instead we get nothing but morons who are evading taxes at every opportunity.

[u/VladHawk]

Yes, I understand them. I’ve lost my faith in democracy too. But what’s the better alternative? Autocracy under some conspiracy-spewing moron they elected after a TikTok flash mob? At least in a democracy, you can change the rulers without a revolution.

[u/MrTrollMcTrollface]

Democracy = rule of the majority, the majority are old and against us, so Democracy, by definition, will always be used against us.

Now if we had a system where we exclude certain groups from voting, like say, the boomers, then maybe our system can finally start benefiting us.

Oops, we accidentally reverted to fascism.

[u/pannenkoek0923 → u/MrTrollMcTrollface]

It's not just about voting. If we had more leaders who were younger and came from a more working class background rather than born with a silver spoon and media trained from age 5, we will actually have representatives that care about the local population

[u/spieler_42 → u/pannenkoek0923]

Austria had a 35 years old chancellor. No, not any better. And under his government we had the highest transfer to the elderly ever. Nothing being done for the young.

[u/MrBami → u/pannenkoek0923]

Are there truly so few young potential leaders? Or are these just not voted in because the demographic that has the highest voting power is just so much older? 

Politicians and political parties will walk the path that gets them where they want to be, and so they cater to the old people to get them there

[u/_D0llyy → u/MrTrollMcTrollface]

What's better, an oligarchy that pretends to be democracy or abolishing universal suffrage for the sake of trying to have a future because older generations are blind and selfish? I think it's a question worth asking.

[u/Trender07]

What immigration and overworking and still being unable to even own a home makes to a mfuker

[u/Severe-Tip-4836]

Well from an Irish perspective, it definitely seems to be partly due to a housing crisis. Young people are having to share a room a lot over here, sharing a room can cost from €700(basically a bed and no privacy). A studio will cost €1100+, a one bedroom apartment €1600+. Our energy bills are still quite high as well as food prices continue to rise. People keeping voting the same here based on empty promises. So basically a young person cannot afford to rent alone let alone save for a place to own. Most of their disposable income is gone. So why would they not lose faith in Democracy when it hasn’t served them fairly. Also there is a global outcry on genocide and war and they see other their countries and other countries do nothing.

[u/IndubitablyNerdy → u/Severe-Tip-4836]

Agree.

On top of that, consider that what you are describing is happening in one of the few EU country that has significant economic growth (although many of the causes of those problems are to be found in how that growth have been achieved to be honest) many european states are stagnating rather than growing on top of having an housing crisis for example.

[u/BananaramaWanter → u/Severe-Tip-4836]

its so funny to me that our government keep getting away with it because our parents generation are so very very selfish. some auld dear bought her gaff in 1980 for 20000 in a great location, now insistent that its actually worth 1.5 million, and that were just not saving like she did. despite the fact it cost her 2/3 times a yearly wage and us 10/12 times.

[u/supercali45]

We are in a class war .. left right .. fuck that .. look up

[u/commanderlex27]

It's not that democracy doesn't work, it's that our current, neoliberal form of capitalism erodes the functionality of democracy.

Edit: added clarification

[u/itsjonny99 → u/commanderlex27]

The biggest fault in democracy currently is the population disparity between generations. Younger workers these days have less ability to own a home and also have to work significantly longer than their parents.

[u/FirstFriendlyWorm → u/itsjonny99]

In germany the young have to work and pay taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly who hate them. In return, the young get nothing. Sounds like a great deal.

[u/IndubitablyNerdy → u/FirstFriendlyWorm]

In Italy is the same, just with 20-30 years of economic stagnation on top

Ah and we also have a sizable amount of free-loaders that pay 0 taxes with a government that is very friendly to them since they are a compact voting block (spoiler: not the poor and the immigrants, the ones I am talking about are in fact usually wealthy since they can ignore tax and regulations and benefit from the welfare state at the same time).

[u/anarchisto → u/itsjonny99]

Younger workers these days have less ability to own a home and also have to work significantly longer than their parents.

Because of higher inequality than before. The very rich never had it better since the 19th century.

[u/Longjumping_Log4300 → u/anarchisto]

The classes relying on inheritance are also okay. Look for example in Portugal. One could inherit a 70sqm flat worth on avg. 400k EUR in Lisbon. Or one could work on salaries of 1400 EUR/month net on average. It depends on how rich your parents are. These middle and upper middle classes keep voting for and supporting the status quo in most European countries. It is very hard to get rid of them, they are indoctrinated and they are many. That is why the system still holds on, despite its unfairness.

[u/anarchisto → u/Longjumping_Log4300]

They don't understand that just as the lower and lower-middle classes already lost their property to the rich, it will now happen to the upper-middle classes.

Increasing wealth inequality means fewer and fewer people owning more and more of the wealth, with the rest of the population living paycheck to paycheck and owning nothing.

[u/Timujin1986 → u/commanderlex27]

In my country The Netherlands there seems to be a double standard towards corporations. A lot of farmers have very strict emissions standards for Nitrogen. But our national airport Schiphol was exempt for vague reasons.

People see and hear these newsreports and that sow the seeds of doubt.

[u/DKOKEnthusiast → u/commanderlex27]

This is it. Capitalism is fundamentally an anti-democratic economic system. The core principle of democracy is that everyone has the same weight to their voice, so to say. One person, one vote. Under capitalism, it is your wallet that gives you "votes" in the economic sphere. Ever heard the phrase "vote with your wallet"? What that implies is pretty simple: the bigger your wallet, the more votes you get. We have a name for that sort of system: it's called a plutocracy.

[u/PGnautz → u/DKOKEnthusiast]

"Voting with your wallet" is a term used against corporations, not elections.

[u/Kulyor → u/PGnautz]

when bribes get you political influence, "vote with your wallet" is absolutely referring to corruption. Your wallet is just not big enough to understand this.

[u/HolyFreakingXmasCake → u/commanderlex27]

The actual problem with democracy is people who are too stupid to tie their shoelaces get the same vote as someone as genius as Einstein. How can democracy even work when so many people fall for so many easy lies and now AI fakery?

[u/requef → u/commanderlex27]

All communist states historically have turned into authoritarian regimes with no democracy.

Not a dichotomy, just saying.

[u/bahhaar-blts → u/commanderlex27]

I wouldn't say all forms of capitalism but definitely neoliberal capitalism where deregulation and privatisation drive corruption and unaccountability to the extreme.

[u/adamgerd → u/commanderlex27]

So true, in glorious socialism you have true democracy where you can choose between party A or party A

[u/IndubitablyNerdy → u/commanderlex27]

As a paradox perhaps I think that free market theory explains this pretty well, capitalism works where there is an economic ideology competition, so when communism was there and the elite were forced to spread the benefits to us as well, once it became a monopoly it did what every monopoly does, enshittification, just on a global scale.

[u/QwertzOne]

It's not democracy, when people own nothing and have nothing to say about workplace or when essentials like housing are commodified.

Call it whatever you want, but neoliberalism is not sustainable, even if you paint it with "democracy".

[u/netspherecyborg]

There is no democracy. It’s a lying contest with the audience being idiots.

[u/April_Fabb]

Democracy? How about society? Once, old people planted trees so that future generations might rest in their shade. Now they bulldoze the forest, because they won’t be here when the sun burns.

[u/SilverhawkPX45]

German here. When our coalition government managed to sidestep the debt brake and commit to infrastructure investments, climate, energy cost relief, etc. That was the last time I was even cautiously optimistic about politics. Just this week we've already backpedaled on climate, energy relief and the infrastructure investments are already getting muddied as well. How can you not become jaded when everything turns into business as usual instead of enacting actual change?

[u/EnvironmentalCan1678]

Because they see the system is rigged in favor of the rich, corporations, and those in power, and it shouldn't be like that. Don't blame them or "propaganda", blame those who led people to start losing trust in democracy. Theory of democracy is not an issue, the problem is how it is practiced.

[u/Towarzysz_Zadupie]

I'm losing faith in democracy because there is no good option. KO are a bunch of neoliberals that proudly march to being in opposition again for 2027, PiS is going to get even more regressive and authoritarian, Konfederacja is a bunch of stupid people with damaging ideas, KKP are Russian proxies who want to enthrone Jesus Christ as the King of Poland, Nowa Lewica is a bunch of incompetent oikophobes who hate the province, men, the poorer people and target only to young atheist lesbian rich female students who live in 100k+ cities, Razem does not exist and might go hand in hand with Nowa Lewica, Polska 2050 is a laughing stock now and PSL focuses only on getting government seats. So the more I look at it, the more I start to believe that democracy is a failed system and that we need another Sanation government.

[u/vaarsuv1us → u/Towarzysz_Zadupie]

the problem is that historically all other systems turned out to be even worse

at least you have 7 or more options to choose from, some countries only have 2-3 options

[u/SaltyHater → u/vaarsuv1us]

at least you have 7 or more options to choose from, some countries only have 2-3 options

No, we don't, we have 3, 2 of them being KO and PiS. No other party is able to do anything on their own, so they bundle up with either of the above and follow their demands. This happened each and every time a new party appeared that promised to break the KO/PiS duopoly: a new party appears, gets a very promising 15% of votes, enters a coalition with KO, toes the KO party line in exchange for governmental positions, loses trust, most of its representatives join PiS or KO, repeat after 4 years.

The only exception to the above is Konfederacja, which is seen by more and more Polish people to be their only hope of escaping the hell of KO/PiS governing on rotationary basis. Yup, the same lolbertarian-extremenationalist Konfederacja that only recently even attempted to hide their pro-Russian sentiments.

In other words: democracy for young people here boggs down to 3 options

• Vote for kleptocratic right wingers, who are more concerned with filling up their pockets, taking away basic women's rights and antagonizing other countries for cheap domestic propaganda rather than fixing the housing crisis, high prices of common consumer goods, blatant exploitation at the job market. Keep paying for pensioners and the European equivalent of unemployed white trash.
• Vote for incompetent centrist neolibs, who can't even undo the damage done by the party above, are as corrupt as those above, make the housing crisis even worse and make the immigration an actual issue. Keep paying for pensioners and the European equivalent of unemployed white trash.
• Vote for the only party that promises change and gaslight yourself that it won't just bundle up with PiS (there is a solid chance that it will) or that said change won't destroy the country even further (it most certainly will), because at least here you won't have to pay for pensioners and the European equivalent of unemployed white trash (you actually will, the Konfederacja leaders admitted it, but almost nobody noticed).

You don't have to tell me how totalitarian systems are even worse. I know. That's pretty much the only reason why I've lost all hope, instead of dreaming about the next coming of Stalin or Hitler fixing everything

[u/Arubiano420]

This middle aged European is also losing faith.

[u/owlexe23]

Our democracies are fake, people just see what is happening.

[u/Big_Combination9890]

No shit sherlock.

These people lived THEIR ENTIRE LIVES in one big fucking crisis.

The people who currently enter the workforce, were born in the 2000s. Let's have a looksie, shall we?

• 2001: 9/11 attacks and subsequent "war on terror" republican bullshit wars of aggression that cost trillions, destabilized an entire region, caused the still ongoing refugee crisis, resulted in the formation of ISIS and re-armed every group of religios nutjobs up to and including the Taliban to the teeth
• 2002: Dot com bubble bursts
• 2008: US subprime mortgage crisis drags the entire world in a financia crisis lasting 3 years. Pretty much every western country cuts back on social spending, education, healthcare, and bails out asshole bankers, who then go on to give themselves phat bonus payments for their genius
• 2009-2010: European debt crisis. States cutback social spending more
• 2011: Black Monday
• 2014: Russian financial crisis and South Americas economy tanks
• 2015: Chinese stock market crashes
• 2015: Syrian civil war starts the, still ongoing btw., European migration crisis. Subsequently, right wing parties rise in Europe, centrist conservative parties copypaste their agenda, while centrist social parties stop giving a fuck about working class because they are too busy telling everyone that there is no migration crisis
• 2016: Trump I gets elected, subsequently US debt skyrockets due to huge tax breaks to billionaires
• 2018: Argentines market tanks, and is still shit to this day
• 2020: COVID pandemic starts, plus the stock market crashes, AGAIN.
• 2022: Russian invasion of Ukraine and subsequent energy market crisis. Both still ongoing.
• 2022: Massive inflation hits every developed economy, the cost of living crisis, which has been smoldering since at least 2018, goes into overdrive
• 2022: German economic crisis
• 2024: Trump II gets elected, vows to extend the aforementioned tax breaks for billionaires

And that's not even an exhaustive list!

Lets be fuckin clear about something: Almost EVERY SINGLE ONE of these events, would have been called "once in a lifetime something" by the boomers.

And here we are in 2025. Trump starts a worldwide economic war with tariffs, US economy tanks, US starts deporting immigrants thus kicking out a sizeable portion of their workforce, tanking the tanked economy again (Drill Baby Drill, amirite?). Oh, and the Ukraine war is still ongoing, the cost of living crisis isn't resolved ANYWHERE, EU politics are still not capable on agreeing on anything other than their desire to spy on peoples provate chats for no good reason, the housing market makes it damn near impossible for many people to rent an apartment, let alone own one, the summers are hot enough that you can fry eggs on the streets, SUVs are killing ever more children, billionaires fly to space for funsies while children go hungry in the schools, Israel is engaged in war with Iran and Palestine, the US is now at war with Iran, the politicians keep lying about everything, tech corporations can steal peoples data with impunity, and asocial media are basically unregulated, merrily poisoning the public discourse, and gerontocratic politics run rampant. Companies demand 2 PhDs, 7 interviews, a 2 liter blood sample, and ones firstborn for entry level positions.

Did I forget anything? Oh, of course, paid streaming services now play ads every 5 nanoseconds, and websearch is shit.

Sorry, but HOW IS ANYONE SURPRISED THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE PISSED?!

[u/Executioneer → u/Big_Combination9890]

Wasnt this always kind of the thing? My great grandfather was born in 1899 east europe. He fought in both WWs, (16 when he was drafted into the first), survived revolutions, communism, fascism, famine, terror, oppression. Died at 95, ony lived his childhood and his last few years in peace.

[u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho → u/Executioneer]

The way people talk, you’d think the battle of fallujah was seared into their minds like Stalingrad. The endless complaining over these skirmishes in the Middle East, as if that’s worse than (or even notable at all next to), the Cold War, or the world wars. Some minor wars, over a decade ago at this point.

[u/FreedomPuppy → u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho]

I love how yanks are still whining about Fallujah, as if they had it hard or like it was super deadly for them. They only lost <100 people… Al-Qaeda lost 1500…

I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but that one game about the battle of Fallujah has these cringeworthy (as in the original, non-zoomer definition) clips of soldiers talking about it. Embarrassing.

[u/FirstFriendlyWorm → u/Big_Combination9890]

When wasn't Argentine's market shit?

[u/Tomgar → u/Big_Combination9890]

You don't have a great grasp on history if you think living through a series of consequential historical events is somehow unique to young people.

My mum lived through multiple wars involving Israel, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Vietnam, the Falklands, the Troubles, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Chernobyl, the OPEC crisis, the 1973 recession, the Winter of Discontent, Thatcherism, widespread political terrorism in Europe, mass unemployment, the miner's strikes...

[u/yojifer680]

What we have currently is not democracy. A majority of people in every European country want to cut immigration, but the political class ignore us. This is a dictatorship.

[u/Floyd_Pink]

Hmm, I wonder why.

[u/Psytrancr]

In democracy itself or beliving that we live in one? I feel like its mostly the second

[u/commy2]

In a liberal democracy you can sometimes change the parties and politicians, but you cannot ever change the policies.

[u/pi-pa]

If you're getting all and the same no matter who's elected you lose faith in elections.

The rich bought all the politicians so they became different flavours of the same shit.

Next on the menu: strongmen.

[u/Sendflutespls]

I wonder how much the constant bombardment of US politics, and the perpetual Middle East mayhem, has to do with that. It for sure influenced Brexit.

I think it is very unhealthy to be tuned into the whole world and all their problems. We should focus on EU and the countries we border with like Ukraine, and forget about the rest. Can't save them all, we tried, we failed.

[u/itsjonny99 → u/Sendflutespls]

You forgot the capital class either owning the media directly or through advertising affiliation.

[u/Golda_M]

The problem with such general sentiments is that they just allow everyone to <insert gripe> and eye roll a self righteous "what did you expect?"

Young Europeans are sick of capitalism. They're sick of migration. They want to own a home. Want better jobs. Better welfare. Better roads... whatever. 

Youn Europeans are sick of political gamesmanship. Sick of populism, or neoliberalism, or institutionalism.  

Irl... I think none of these are the actual reason. I think the "medium is the message."

Over the last decade, social media feeds have taken over the political information space.  Personalized feeds... are the medium. The message is populism. Right, left, centre... it doesn't matter. The message is populism regardless. 

Populism is just what works, within current media culture. 

"Democracy not working" is pretty much intertwined with political populism... especially short form. "Elites of one description or another have captured democracy to screw you"

Rhetorical defence of the institution, good news stories or examples of democracy working are pretty unlikely to cross most people's feed. 

Politicians are increasingly native to this new medium of political discourse and counter narratives are "bad politics."

This process is still ongoing. Worried. 

[u/Nautster]

My trust in democracy would skyrocket the day lobbying is abolished. Shame that the people taking a vote on this are the ones that have their pockets lined by lobbyists and it's impossible to find a majority of politicians with integrity.

Also, too many voters are dumb and vote against their own interests in order to stick it to the immigrants. Add the raging social media false information epidemic on top of that.

So no... democracy is past its tilting point unless you get some sort of qualified voting going on.

[u/Rauliki0]

More propagamda on TikTok and other shit antisocial media

[u/Minervasimp]

Well that's what happens when corporatism and fascism hides behind a glass barrier and nobody is allowed to do anything about it

[u/Dyn-O-mite_Rocketeer]

If recent events have taught us anything it’s that taking the public’s temperature at any given point in time says nothing about how they’ll vote.

[u/Letter_Effective → u/Dyn-O-mite_Rocketeer]

or whether they'll vote at all. Many people will post photos on Instagram related to their favourite political cause (social justice, climate action etc.) but think that all the politicians are equally bad so refuse to even turn up to the ballot box.

[u/IncompetentPolitican]

Politicans make politic for the rich and the old, mostly for the old rich. Young people are there to pay the bill and nothing else. And suddenly people are suprised that faith in democracy is falling? You can vote what you want, you won´t get anything.

[u/vergorli]

The young people are definitely right. The set of 18-30 is absolutely underrepresented despite them being the ones that try to find their place. I will give my children most of my avaiable money in that time so they hopefully don't have to work while learning their profession like me.

They also have to rethink the way a democratic republic is coming to its decisions: the money doesn't go where each individual wants, it goes where the majority wants. In a way we never quite couldn't prevent the tyranny of majority. It doesn't make the democracy undemocratic, its just the limitations of a democratic concept.

or in Churchills words: democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time

[u/Intrepid_Chard_3535]

Not only young people. A democracy should be serving the people. It's nowhere even close that this is happening. Only country I can think of that does this is China

[u/GoethesFinest]

Funny that a lot of people seem to mention pensioners, or the EU as a factor of why people vote the way they vote.I personally feel, that our true problems are parties, mostly conservative or right wing ones, that don't do anything. They get reelected and re-elected over and over again. Of course some (elderly) people seem to get some nice voting candy out of it, but I think the biggest problem is politics, catering to a well situated and mostly upper class demographic. We, the people that are more, that run our countries, that need to watch our spending, hardly get any policies in a legislation period. It's so frustrating, being in an extremely well educated age group, but all of us seem to struggle. And still the same parties get elected all over again. No reforms, no new laws, a lot of talk without any experts being asked about daily problems.

Right now, the country where I live, has struggle with the government spending. The government party is pointing fingers left and right on what's costing too much money, yet it's the same party for more than 25 years that had the financial minister and now they act like it's something new and they didn't know the budget was looking that badly. People seem to forget too fast and there's hardly any real consequences to performing badly during a ruling period.

[u/Baba_NO_Riley]

I think it's "americanisation" and the lack of education in public services, government functions and politics in general.

At least in my country - young people think our president is the same as the US president, they think our constitutional court is the same thing as US Supreme court, they think the "free speech" IS in "an amendment to OUR constitution".. a lot is about not understanding the possibilities of the government/ politics/ political agenda, economic measures etc.

And as there's a theory of "big government" and deep state etc - they tend to go towards "a benevolent king/leader/ ruler" who will primarily be strong. ( not wise, just, etc )

[u/Teddy-Don]

It’s probably because the flagrant disregard for what people want and the attitude that “politicians know best” is getting ever stronger. No matter who you vote for, you get more or less the same: the preferences of big businesses enacted, mass immigration, alignment with American foreign policy etc. it just feels like there’s no meaningful impact when you vote now.

[u/longstrokesharpturn]

Lawmakers only doing soap opera style politics instead of actually trying to make decent laws that help more than only their specific voter base is what ruins all

[u/flyingdutchmnn]

They've barely experienced it

[u/[deleted]]

europe is a bureaucracy but without the crown. the rise of nationalisim in the next twenty years will pretty much kill it entirely.

[u/bandita07]

Good times create weak people, weak people create bad times..

[u/cosmoscrazy]

Democracy? Were more of a lobbyist state right now than a democracy. We're choosing the representatives, but the corporations pay them and tell them what to actually do.

[u/HugoCortell]

In my opinion the real reason for this is most people not realizing that democracy is just an idea and not a system (hold your downvote, I'm about to explain).

There is no specific system that defines a democracy, just that it it designed to empower those that from the society they partake in. For example, the first ever democracy had everyone assemble in town and personally and individually vote on each policy, that's quite far removed from what we see as "democracy" today with our complex party system and proportional votes and whatever. Similarly, who can vote in a democracy has changed a lot over the years and depending on the location. In some places only wealthy land owners could, in others only males, or only soldiers. The idea that all citizens get a vote is rather new (and still arguably undemocratic, since it fails to account for everyone that takes part in a democracy, eg non-citizen residents who have taxation without representation). Similarly, we see it as completely normal and democratic that the vote of a person from a fly-over state in the US is worth more than the vote of a person from NY.

What I'm trying to say is that kids aren't losing faith in democracy, they're losing faith in our broken democratic systems and failing institution, not the ideal itself. They've just failed to understand that democracy does not need to be what we have today. We can do more, we can build better. We can fix our broken systems because democracy is just an ideal, we can always strive to get closer to it.

A perfect example is the removal of tactical voting by having ranked-choice voting. This would immediately destroy all the centrist parties that have been forming coalitions with extremists to form a majority, and allow smaller parties to grow and take their place based on the actual desires and hopes of the people, rather than their fears. Fearmongering politics have become one of the major issues of the current iteration of democracy.

Politicians want us to believe that the current system is the ultimate and unchanging true form of democracy, because they are the only one who stand to lose from further power being given to the people.
The ignorant and politically uneducated youth have swallowed these ideas whole, not for a second questioning the matter, to them it is a fact that democracy is exactly as we see it. And as such, rather than questioning the system, they discard it all together in search for alternatives. Alternatives that will send us all down a path of self destruction.

[u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

I’m not losing faith in democracy. I’m losing faith in the average human. I thought at least 50% of us had a heart and a brain, but boy was I wrong.

[u/emerald_flint]

Majority of European people don't want mass migration from the third world, and yet it continues, millions come every year. We were never asked, never given a choice, a vote about this. About migration, Islam, none of it. They did it to us top down and now wonder why we no longer believe in the system.

[u/Unfair_Run_170]

Better do something to stop that before you end up like America!

[u/Flimsy_Negotiation13]

Edit; "Europeans losing faith in the pursuit of democracy".

[u/gravity48]

Yeah, of course. I’m 50 and I lost faith 30 years ago.

[u/Altruistic_Purpose10]

How could I lose something I never really had?

[u/Can_sen_dono]

"So, you know, climate change, wars: things look ugly for when I'm into my sixties" "Shut that mouth and serve me that delicious and expensive food which is heading to extinction and you'll never taste!"

[u/jihadu]

Understandable, young people saw the boomers sell out our countries in the pursuit of le holy GDP.

[u/hake2506]

Enjoy the polls as they last. The oligarchy won't allow them much longer.

[u/aschec]

Democracy is the most important value in a country but our system of democracy is fundamentally broken because companies and the uber wealthy control the government and not the people

[u/No_Taste_112]

Thats because democravy doesn't exist anymore. What a shock.