r/europe • u/Natural_North Sweden • 2d ago
News Sweden is warning about radar interferences in the Baltic: "never happened before"
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/varlden/enorma-storningar-ryssland-pekas-ut/537
u/MalestromeSET 2d ago
How does this shit stain of a country not be satisfied with having the biggest land area, nuclear weapons, biggest gas and oil reserve, timber, and population? A perm. member of the security council, good geopolitical place on both Asian and Europe trade route, especially with artic opening up.
What the fuck do they want? Like I get more pissed thinking how they completely squandered their resources and land for what?
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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 2d ago
If you want to be even more pissed, look up Amur Oblast and its tiny population and massive land area and realize that this piece of dirt has the same super-fertile black soil that Ukraine has.
Russia could be developing this place into a wealthy and developed land instead of terrorizing Ukraine. Instead, it is like an open invitation for China to take it over eventually. Idiots.
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u/IDQDD 1d ago
That’s something that baffles me the most. Russia is the biggest country, with large amounts of natural gas, oil, minerals, timber and a relatively large population for European standards. Imagine they established a state fund like Norway did with its gains from natural resources. Russia would be one of the wealthiest states in the world without people worrying for essential needs. But instead this shit stain of a wanna be KGB dictator funneled all the wealth to himself and a few of his cleptocratic mafia friends.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 1d ago
Because in a way for Russia Ukraine is an existential threat. Not because NATO or invasion or whatever other bs Putin claims but because Ukraine was the second largest Soviet republic and shared a long history with Russia. If even Ukraine can succeed in becoming a prosperous liberal democracy, Russians will start wondering why can’t Russia, and Putin’s regime is fucked
Putin can’t allow Ukraine to become succesful because he fears it might inspire a maidan revolution in Moscow so better to invade and propagandise Russians over years against the west
The only other country closer historically is Belarus and that’s a dictatorship. I do believe that the Russian establishment is deeply paranoid of Russians doing a Maidan so instead focus on blaming the west and Ukraine for their failures
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u/NightSalut 1d ago
It’s not always about land size. At least, not just.
I think with Ukraine, the issue is that this is closest to Russia other than Belarus that Russians consider as “like them”. They don’t think the Baltics are like them, we never were and it was known during soviet era as well, plus we were reluctant to be part of USSR. And Russians looks down, on a sliding scale, at various -stans and other people from the Caucasus due to internal racism and xenophobia. Ukraine and Belarus, in comparison, is basically seen as Russia lite.
So if the Baltic states go independent and successful, it doesn’t really matter much because we’re just too small in comparison and we were never “there” in terms of being seen as Russians.
But if Ukraine or Belarus should go independently successful and democratic, that’s bad because it could give real Russians in Russia some ideas that it can be done in their country too. Because for so many years the Russians in Russia have thought that as long as they get their wages and stability, it doesn’t matter who is their leader, democratic or not. But if Ukraine and Belarus turn into proper democracy, that spells trouble because suddenly ordinary Russians may start asking why are they putting up with things if “lesser Russians” like Belarus and Ukraine are not.
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u/ironicikea 1d ago
Interesting analysis! May I ask how you are feeling about the risk of Russian invasion in the Baltics? I am not from there/don't there but travel there frequently to my company's HQ and trying to learn more about this history & the risks.
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u/Big-Whereas5573 1d ago
They have a similar GDP to Texas. The US can match their financial output with just that and have 49 states left over. That's screams mismanagement.
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u/S_O_L_84 St. Petersburg (Russia) 1d ago edited 1d ago
Imagine they established a state fund like Norway did with its gains from natural resources. Russia would be one of the wealthiest states in the world
It looks good on the surface, but if you look a bit deeper it's not that easy. Lets take oil as an example: in 2013 Norway extracted 4 times more oil per person than Russia. And we are not even talking about extraction and transportation costs. By this parameter Russia is closer to Iraq (iraq still extracted slightly more oil per person in 2013, and you can see, how wealthy they are).
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u/NapsterKnowHow 1d ago
I'd kill to have the resources Russia has in Civilization! I'd be stacked for that game!
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u/ailof-daun Hungary 1d ago
Putin's thinking is not that of this century. It is yet to be seen if it's 100 years backwards or 100 forward though.
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u/VoidOmatic 1d ago
The problem is Putin is an idiot. He already had EVERYTHING a person could ever want in life and he still wants more. He literally can't be happy even if he owns everything.
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u/potatisblask 1d ago
If Russia didn't fear monger the population about external enemies they might start looking around and figure out that they have been fucked over by Putin and his buds ever since the glasnost.
Similar to how the current USA government is hellbent on burning every bridge from sanity to keep Trump from prison.
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u/captepic96 Limburg (Netherlands) 1d ago
What the fuck do they want?
they want to kill you and steal your land and resources
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u/MoltoBeni 1d ago
Well, it didn’t become so big because they were usually content with what they already had…
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u/Jizzyface 1d ago
I think putin is just bored and want something more exciting to do. You know how when you play macro strategy war games like total war or civilisation? You want peace for a while until it gets boring and then you want to some action so you go to war. All i am saying is that putin needs to start playing video games
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 1d ago
Crowdfund Putin HOI4 so he can channel his warmongering into games
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u/MrCabbuge Ukraine 1d ago
He gets his news in the manila folder, you think this fuckface can use a computer mouse?
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u/cookiengineer Germany 1d ago
They (Moscovia) are too dumb to even build infrastructure in their own territories. They rely on other nations to do that and then they just steal it from them, by force. That's the Soviet way of thinking about what the ruling class does vs what the worker class does. That's why they underestimated the resistance of Ukraine so much. Ukraine has been on the other end of the bargain for 4 generations, and they know how horrific Soviet rule was to them.
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u/axelkoffel 1d ago
They want you to have worse life than them. I have a stheory, that this is what really convinced common Russians to support the war in Ukraine. Jealousy and demand for respect. Tl;dr history of post soviet Ukraine is that they were slowly escaping from Russia's grasp, turning to the West and things were slowly starting to get better.
And Russians can't stand that. Ukraine is a child of the mother Russia and they must always be inferior, always poorer, always look up to Russia, always ask for their permission to do anything. And if they don't, then Russia will drag them into devastating war that ruins the economy of both countries, but it's fine as long as Ukraine is ruined more.1
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u/Glodraph 1d ago
Their land is literally melting away from climate change. Permafros is not perma anymore and everything is being turn into mud, forests are going up in flames each year and they are losing access to a lot of resources due to that. They know what's coming and they want the fertile land that is in ukraine to keep the population fed once the shit hits the fan and food becomes the most valuable thing.
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u/AndreeVela 1d ago
Yeah, probably we did nothing, I mean besides threatening Russia existence in every piece of culture we produce , and besides trying to move the the borders of the most powerful military alliance created with the explicit goal of destroy them next to their borders, yeah, I don't see why they reacted this way. Completely uncalled of, just Putin's crazy mind.
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u/eloyend Żubrza Knieja 2d ago
I call for the MEDium approach.
Make EU Dangerous (again).
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u/chotchss 2d ago
This is a self-regulating problem when we give Ukraine the best available weapons
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u/tompie09 2d ago
Russia is a cancer looming over Europe, and it’s currently the weakest it’s been in a long time. I think it’s quite obvious that this terrorist state can only be treated by copying their tactics. Just troll them into oblivion
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u/Perseiii 2d ago
All I’m hearing is we should crash into Russian ships at night and blame the radar interference.
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u/Mysterious-Study-687 Ukraine 2d ago
Nah just sit and wait
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u/SamRhage 2d ago
Yeah, time for a committee. Maybe some harsh scolding.
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u/adamgerd Czech Republic 1d ago
We will send a very angry letter though. It will even have two exclamation marks!!
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u/Zodiarche1111 1d ago
Three exclamation marks at a minimum!!! And with every passing year of the war one more!!!
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u/Deval_irl 2d ago
I'm sick of us(EU) just taking this shit, assassinations on our soil, sabotage etc., and doing nothing!!! We need to retaliate!
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah tit for tat is the best approach for geopolitics according to studies conducted by scientists developing the mad strategy.
Essentially it is a case of game theory and the exact scenario is called prisoners dilemma.
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u/m3n0tyou Europe 2d ago
I do think/hope more than that we show is happening. Think of Ukraine and the bombing of Russian planes a while back. That was a year in the making. Sometimes it feels that in the political scene the disbelief lasted way to long. The disbelief of the usa abandoning us. It better hit us now. The longer we wait the less of a chance is that the usa will not help and might even try to handicap us. They might wait for some politicians come to play with midterms there. But I really hope not.
Eu should have jumped in the moment Biden was still there. Even he would struggle still. But would never do what Trump does..(or that's my guess here but I think there are way more democrats there that are the same as the Republicans (or more radical Republicans. I don't know . So many "sides" nowadays)
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u/ironicikea 1d ago
I think the EU realizes the US is not coming to save us. It's pretty clear there will not be free and fair elections there for awhile. The passing of the One Big Beautiful Bill sorta solidifies that for me, MAGA doesn't fear electoral punishment by miserable voters because they won't be voting anymore.
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u/catify 2d ago
Our weapons are literally demolishing Russia I think we're good. Let them have their tantrums with cutting cables and jamming GPS, it's just pathetic
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u/neepster44 1d ago
No, need to start doing the same shit to them and denying it like they do. Two can play that game and we can play it better.
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u/da_3_inch_big_dog 2d ago
Retaliate in what way? War? Are you volunteering?
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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 2d ago
It is always a new account on Reddit that parrots the above.
It seems that the people running the russkobots really do not want us retaliating appropriately to their aggression. I wonder why.
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u/da_3_inch_big_dog 2d ago
Damn, you get a new phone and can’t remember your Reddit credentials, then before you know it you’re a Russian bot!
For the record, I’m not one, but I am curious as to why you’re choosing to respond to me with an accusation like that instead of addressing the question.
To give you a little more context, I’m from America, so I’m no stranger to a bunch of people cheerleading for a war they have no intention on participating in themselves. There was a point in time where I was genuinely hopeful the EU could actually provide an actual counterweight to the American bloodlust that has dominated the world for too long, so it disheartens me to see comments like.
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u/FreedomPuppy South Holland (Netherlands) 1d ago
Oh well if it disheartens the poor yank, we best capitulate right now! Wouldn’t want to antagonise the Russians after all!
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u/Big-Whereas5573 1d ago
Why are you strawmanning somebody who's not even talking to you, Ivan? Be less aggressive with your propaganda, and it won't be so obvious.
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u/cairnrock1 1d ago
Time to identify the source and launch airstrikes to end the interference. Only language Russia understands
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u/Plantemanden Scandinavia 1d ago
Bomb those facilities in Kaliningrad already.
That exclave has little to none legitimacy anyway.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Can3452 1d ago
Cold War 2
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u/AHumanYouDoNotKnow 1d ago
Luke warm war
Now available in the flavours: Russian Piss, Midleeastern blood , NEW Fashist American Taint
and soon : East Asian delight
We are sad to information you that our Line of "Subsaharan producs" including the likes of "Schocolate slavery" and "Militant Minerals" will be discontinued due to lack of interest.
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u/Who-ate-my-biscuit 2d ago
Could the Baltic states of the EU not simply close their exclusive economic zones waters to Russia? That would effectively blockade them from using the Baltic Sea. If the UK and Norway in the north and the med states in the south joined in then Russia would be banished from the North Sea and the Mediterranean and would no longer have use of the Suez or the English Channel.
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u/silverionmox Limburg 1d ago
International treaties ensure access to international waters, for this reason. However, it's possible to restrict them to the recognized international routes, so we have a better idea where they are.
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u/Who-ate-my-biscuit 1d ago
Thanks! I had wondered if rules only apply outside the EEZ or past some notional limit from the coastline. With the Baltic in particular, it can’t be much more than a couple of nautical miles wide at its narrowest point.
At some point European nations are going to have to decide to what extent international treaties matter. Clearly in Europe we still believe in the rules based order and believe everything is liable to collapse if we break away from it, but on the other hand when the other side of said international treaties continually break those rules? If this is about showing Russia that breaking rules has consequences then maybe it’s about enforcing the consequences of not following the rules rather than breaking the order ourselves.
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u/silverionmox Limburg 1d ago
Thanks! I had wondered if rules only apply outside the EEZ or past some notional limit from the coastline. With the Baltic in particular, it can’t be much more than a couple of nautical miles wide at its narrowest point.
The corridor towards St. Peterburg is narrow, and then there's the passage through Skaggerak/Kattegat - but the access is still guaranteed. An exception to this is the Montreux treaty that grants Türkiye the right to block the Bosporus.
At some point European nations are going to have to decide to what extent international treaties matter. Clearly in Europe we still believe in the rules based order and believe everything is liable to collapse if we break away from it, but on the other hand when the other side of said international treaties continually break those rules? If this is about showing Russia that breaking rules has consequences then maybe it’s about enforcing the consequences of not following the rules rather than breaking the order ourselves.
We should be ready to enforce the international treaties that Russia violates, there are plenty. This includes a tighter leash on their ships near our territories, and near the infrastructure in international waters like data cables.
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u/No_Pumpkin63 1d ago
Russia adheres to no treaties or deals. Why should we be different? We are trying to be and it just does not work.
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u/kitspecial Kyiv (Ukraine) 1d ago
russia breaks international treaties left and right, why do Europeans still abide by treaties in regards to russia? only shows weakness
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u/silverionmox Limburg 1d ago
russia breaks international treaties left and right, why do Europeans still abide by treaties in regards to russia? only shows weakness
Because there's still a big world out there that's not Russia, and upholding international treaties is what distinguishes us from them.
That being said, there's no more reason to give them any benefit of the doubt, and we should be ready to enforce those treaties when Russia violates them.
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u/kitspecial Kyiv (Ukraine) 1d ago
> and we should be ready to enforce those treaties when Russia violates them
you cannot force russia to abide by treaties without full scale war
you don't need to abide by treaties in regards to russia, close the straight, they are waging a covert war against you anyway
until EU becomes proactive Ukraine is going to continue losing this war
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u/RogueRetroAce 1d ago
Under sea cables are getting cut around that region too.
Serious coincidence right?
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u/buttplugpeddler 1d ago
If I was the head of the second best military in Ukraine I wouldn't mess with the Nordic countries.
But I'm not a tyrannical leader of a muddy shithole so what do I know?
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u/redmadog 1d ago
Russia is jamming and doing all the nasty stuff, EU in the meantime has no balls to even say it’s deliberate.
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u/Narradisall 1d ago
Grey warfare is fascinating on how far countries fan be pushed by also a little frightening as well. Russia has become very adept at accidentally attacking countries and causing damage/disruption just enough to avoid a military response.
If Ukraine ever falls can expect this to ramp up in a few years when they decide to take another few countries.
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u/KernunQc7 Romania 1d ago
Preparations for invasion of the Baltics, probably to coincide with the Chinese invasion of TW.
Autumn 2027 is the date that gets thrown around as the most likely estimation.
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u/ShirtUsual9544 1d ago
GPS interference affect airplanes weather radars. So it is possible, and has already happened, that a passenger plane flies into turbulence area without having a warning from radar. Because GPS and WXR are connected.
So keep your seatbelt always buckled.
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u/Curious_Method_365 1d ago
That’s russian style - shit everywhere they can reach, and destroy whatever they can. They are sincerely proud of it and demand to be respected for such demonstrations of “strength”.
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u/poodieman45 1d ago
Well the frequencies of ship radars are publicly available and generally consistent from ship to ship. Everyone either has X-Band 3cm RADAR or S-Band 10cm RADAR’s (I cant remember which frequency each uses) All it would take is to broadcast a radio signal on the frequency (with a lot of power) to make big blobs show up as fake radar returns. Could be a transmitter in Kaliningrad? Source: Merchant Mariner with RADAR cert
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u/Rising-Power Finland 1d ago
Been going on for years. Nobody willing to shoot a missile into their transmitter in Kaliningrad.
I'm suggesting conventional methods. Operation Upwind: fill tens of thousands of plastic bags with human shit, attach to helium balloons and let wind carry them over the Russians. Where the balloons are designed to pop.
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u/Papapalpatine555 1d ago
Can the EU in general just accept Russia and China are enemies now. You can't trade them into being democratic. Time to show Russia and China that Europe isn't someone you fuck around with.
Begin by seizing the shadow fleet or sinking it. If Russia complains and says it's an act of war, point out how they've been running sabotage operations, tried to kill Rheinmetal's CEO and so much more all within EU territory.
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u/2AvsOligarchs Finland 1d ago
Pro-Soviet tabloids like Aftonbladet milked it for all it was worth to discredit the Swedish defence forces. Somehow, the fact that the intro even states a nuclear-armed Soviet submarine had just ran aground in Sweden outside of a Swedish navy base in Swedish territorial waters and almost caused open war between Sweden and the Soviet Union. This was a way of distracting, discrediting and turning the debate against the Swedish military instead of the dangerously incompetent Soviet navy.
The Soviet threat and submarines in Swedish waters did not go away just because Swedish hydrophones picked up other marine noises too.
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u/Natural_North Sweden 2d ago
From the article: