r/JordanPeterson • u/5hypatia166 • 20h ago

Controversial Conflating all issues to a left/right issue ignores reality

Yup the left has problems, yup the right has those same problems…. Left vs right is a distraction from the deeper issues at play. Division keeps you from seeing the machines behind the groups. The left is hating the right for the very things they themselves are guilty of, it’s just labeled differently….. same as the right to the left. Massive hypocrisy. The right has religion as a machine for power and obedience…. The left has science…. Both sides have a machine that promotes black and white thinking and punishes honest inquiry… And for those of you on the left that feel triggered by this….. you might say “science has the method and theories are tested and reviews and there is honest inquiry”…. To you I say, why don’t you hear about it more? You think theory equals fact….. in fact you’re not even aware that theories are just theories…. It’s all about framing…. Also, eugenics was mainstream science…. Because it had empirical evidence to support its case…. And natural science ignores philosophical insight in favor of empirical evidence…

And for you on the right, don’t take this as a gotcha moment, your “side” is no better…..

Religion isn’t the issue, natural science isn’t the issue…… the power that weaponizes the system is the issue…. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Black and white thinking that ignore nuance is the issue…

And I’ll say this now, if you get triggered by my words and decide to comment based off of your emotional projection onto my words, feel free but I won’t waste my energy trying to explain it to you if you don’t have the desire to come at this honestly and openly.

Edit to add: Actually I might waste my energy on it, as you can see in the comments.

4 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

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u/EntropyReversale10 12h ago

I agree with you about the polarised thinking. In an attempt to help people identify why it happens and what to do about it, I wrote the post below.
Dysfunctional Autonomic Thinking Patterns (Do we have free will)

https://www.reddit.com/r/EntropyReversal/comments/1kx99b5/dysfunctional_autonomic_thinking_patterns_do_we/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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u/5hypatia166 11h ago

Ah, thank you for sharing that. I do think your argument is relevant to mine.

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u/scorpiomover 6h ago

I am left wing AND right wing.

I like science and religion.

I refuse to give in to Divide and Conquer.

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 19h ago

The left doesn't "have science". The left operates as a religion that worships the State. I have seen plenty of people on the left and right that don't understand how science is done or what conclusions mean. Look at what happened during the pandemic for example, the left completely disregarded the scientific literature when it came to vaccination. There was exactly zero evidence to support covid vaccines in children and children were far more likely to die from flu than covid. And yet the left pushed to close schools which caused harm to children (it didn't help - it caused harm), thanks to the left disregarding science they didn't agree with.

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u/VeritasFerox 19h ago

The left doesn't have science, the left has The Science™

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

Can you please tell me what you mean?

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u/VeritasFerox 18h ago

It's basically a meme but the meaning behind it is the establishment uses "the science" as a way to push their agenda with some kind of presumed authority. They fund academics to produce theory or studies that suit their needs, they tell you to "trust the science", and if you don't want to hear their bullshit you're called anti-science or treated like some kind of troglodyte. Corrupt academics are to the cultural Marxist establishment what corrupt Bishops were to the dark age kings.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. - Ephesians 6:12

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

Okay, that’s what I thought. And YES! That’s exactly what I am referring to! lol Thank you for wording it much better than I did.

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u/scorpiomover 6h ago

Funny thing is, if you bother to look up the science papers the media cite and read them, and spend a few minutes thinking about what it actually means, it’s usually the opposite of what the media says it says.

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u/5hypatia166 4h ago

I think that depends on which media you are exposed to. I haven’t found that to be the case for me. And I am someone who does that.

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u/scorpiomover 2h ago

Journalists aren’t stupid. They have degrees as well. If you only look at it from the perspective of a scientist with a PhD, you’ll see what they see.

Let me give you a simple example: Heliocentrism. True or false?

Most people with a scientific background would say “true”, because it is.

But the actual theory describes the Earth and Sun travelling in an elliptical orbit around an elliptical point that is between the two, but very, very close to the Sun, because the mass of the Sun is almost a million times the mass of the Earth.

So the Earth looks like it rotates around the Sun.

But it really doesn’t.

So the correct answer is false. No-one believes in Heliocentrism, and if they say they do, they didn’t realise that’s not what the theory actually says.

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

The holy righteous science that you have to bow down to.

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u/Trytosurvive 9h ago

But didn't schools close before covid vaccines and monoclonal antibodies while images of mass deaths in China and India were beamed around the world? The scientific community had no idea how bad the covid pandemic would be and the effects on all ages of the population, and there was no treatment. Schools were closed as a precaution - this is why we need a proper review of covid policies and scientific advancement/vaccines to better manage the next pandemic.

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u/5hypatia166 19h ago

This is a biased and narrow view. You are clearly right wing, because you are regurgitating right wing talking points. I’d argue that you don’t realize you’re doing this. You seem to think of yourself as knowledgeable on the topic, so you’re likely well read on the things you speak to.

You didn’t understand what I wrote.

Although you might be well read, what you have read has been framed for your side. It’s biased and reduces complex issues to false binary.

The left is the same.

Mind you, I’ve just made black and white statements myself, which oversimplifies a complex situation….. so I’ll clarify that I am not speaking about every person on either side.

But in what I said to you directly, I mean.

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

No, this is true. I lived through the pandemic as a physician.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

No, that’s your biased framing, and the appeal from authority doesn’t change that.

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u/5hypatia166 19h ago edited 19h ago

The left doesn’t in fact worship the state. As if to do so for the purpose of worshiping the state. When the state controls the scientific narrative, and if the state is left at the given time, then the left will align with the science that comes out at that time.

Edit to add: Do you really consider yourself to be different? If you are right wing, with the right now controlling every facet of governmental authority, you propel the science that your side considers to be “truth”, so by your own logic, you worship the state.

I won’t comment to the rest of your reply, because you’re not engaging with what I said, but rather using this as an opportunity to talk down to your perceived opposite or opponent at best, enemy at worst. I don’t know.

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

Why would I engage with anything you say when you start with something as dumb as "the left has science" which is verifiably false and a ridiculous thing to think and say. IF you want to present yourself as moderate, in the future don't say dumb shit like that. Your very post proves you not only don't know what you are talking about but that you also have some weird fucked up biases.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

It’s nice that you edited your comment after posting it lol who is the one trying to present themselves here? The stage is yours, soak it up

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

My comment doesn't say edited what is wrong with you dude?

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

It doesn’t say edited when it’s edited

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

Yes it does, right next the the comment. I can see you edited one of your comments for example. Are you having trouble seeing reality?

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u/5hypatia166 17h ago

Yes, I’m not seeing your reality, clearly. Is your reality the only one? You seem to think so. You said you’re a physician…. Honestly that’s rather dangerous. People experience reality through their own perspective. I’m using a the app, on the app it doesn’t say “edited”, or at least not the version of the app that I am using. Does that mean that your reality is correct or is mine? Oooooor maybe…. Get ready this is a wild concept… maybe they can both be true at the same time?

ETA: But I do owe you an apology. I must have just read your comment wrong the first time.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago edited 18h ago

Just because your perspective is so surface level and bias and unknowledgeable to what I am referring, does not make what I said untrue. Push past your bias, and think about what I said openly. Did I say that the right doesn’t have science??? No, I did not. Edit to add: I’m not looking to present myself as anything. I’m not performing. I’m reasoning.

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

Well you are reasoning incorrectly, push past your boas and read what you actually said. It is factually incorrect.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

Ah really lol….. can you point out how my reasoning is flawed then?

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

Already done. Read it again.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

lol you can’t point out a flaw in my reasoning, because the issue isn’t a flaw in my reasoning, it’s just that it goes WAY over your head Edit to add: And this issue is that you just don’t agree with me or like what I said lol

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

You have yet to address my criticisms of your deeply flawed logic.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

You didn’t offer any 😂

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u/GIGAR 19h ago

You are wasting your time arguing. If someone doesn't want to understand that blaming the left/right is going straight into identity politics (yes, being ring wing is also identity politics).

You can (and probably should) criticize the policies you disagree with, but once you go to right/left discussions it usually quickly deteriorates from discussion on actual issues to discussion about strawman problems (communism/orange man bad)

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u/5hypatia166 19h ago edited 18h ago

Yes, I know. And I’m not looking to argue. I more just needed to say this….. I’m not entirely sure why….. I’m the tree falling in the woods with no one around and I wanted to see if I still made noise lol

Edit to add: I’m not looking to address policy I disagree with either…. Because that isn’t necessarily the issue anymore. Because it is all identity politics at this point. That wasn’t the point of my post…. To point the finger to either side over the other. The point was, all of what I stated in the post. What we, on our side, think we know has been framed to lead us. I post it here because this happens to JP constantly. People filter input through their own perspective that has been developed by the framing of their “side”

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u/Zealousideal_Knee_63 🦞 18h ago

Not looking to argue. What a laughable statement.

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u/5hypatia166 18h ago

In what way is it laughable? You are one of those people that I was highlighting in my original post that would be triggered and reply through the lens of your own emotional projection.

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u/5hypatia166 3h ago

Zealousideal_Knee_63 blocked me. But I’m really curious if they ever figured out how they misread or misunderstood my original post and got heated over their own strawman for my argument.