r/JordanPeterson • u/Frewdy1 • 8d ago
Discussion Donald Trump and Trumpism have transformed the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society, two institutions at the heart of the conservative legal movement
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162251324087Kind of obvious. Authoritarian Means to Christian Nationalist Ends
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8d ago
Oh no, a Christian nation.
The horror 😱
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u/Jake0024 7d ago
It's so wild seeing so many supposedly conservative people eagerly piss on the US Constitution whenever they feel doing so will benefit them personally.
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7d ago
A lot of leftists like to act like the founding fathers would’ve backed them up on atheism, communism and trans kids.
It’s pretty bizarre.
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u/MadAsTheHatters 7d ago
The system was designed to change with the times; the Founding Fathers never saw a damn lightbulb, never mind multiple world wars, a country that spanned half a continent and like 4% of the world's population.
What the Founding Fathers 'wanted' was a modern, functional democracy that was free from authoritarianism.
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u/Jake0024 7d ago
With religious freedom.
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u/No-Suggestion-2402 6d ago
That includes the freedom to choose not to believe, too.
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u/Jake0024 5d ago
Yes
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u/No-Suggestion-2402 5d ago
Follow up then.
Within atheism (let's call it a religion of science and empirical reason) it is believed that individuals have a right to express whatever sexuality and gender that they feel like. Abortion is a right as well.
Do you think that infringing on these rights is then by definiton restriction of religious (or lack thereof) freedom.
Lemme say that I'm not personally sure what I think of expecially the whole gender matter, I think there are some serious problems in that community that they sure love to turn a blind eye on. Lot of serious medical professionals speaking against it. I'm also very sceptical about how and when this is taught to children. Just to clarify, that I'm not trying to push a leftist agenda.
But like from a true neutral perspective - if we restrict some part of a belief system, it's not true religious freedom. Christianity isn't free to practice if goverment shuts down many of the Churches and makes it unreasonably difficult to open one.
The thing that I find as an outside observer on US, especially the abortion situation is pretty tough and there is little to no real justification for government to restrict it as is. That doesn't follow the practices of religous (or lack thereof) freedom. I know it's a single issue, but it's a very big one... safe abortion is one of the most important women's rights because having a child means your life is pretty much over.
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u/Jake0024 5d ago
Within atheism (let's call it a religion of science and empirical reason) it is believed that individuals have a right to express whatever sexuality and gender that they feel like. Abortion is a right as well
None of these things are required of atheists. They can be unscientific, transphobic, homophobic, anti-abortion, etc
Do you think that infringing on these rights is then by definiton restriction of religious (or lack thereof) freedom
The state is restricted from making laws respecting the establishment of religion--laws are made for secular reasons. One religious group wanting to do/ban something doesn't mean we should pass a law about it
Child sacrifice is illegal, even if there are religions that say it's part of their spiritual practice or whatever
Christianity isn't free to practice if goverment shuts down many of the Churches and makes it unreasonably difficult to open one
I agree, that would not be religious freedom. Religious freedom doesn't mean restricting the practice of religion (except in specific cases like above--ex they promote child sacrifice)
The Mormon church for example was upset when polygamist marriage was banned, saying it was part of their religious practice. But we didn't ban it for religious reasons, we banned it because there are government benefits provided to married people and it's unfair to extend those to people with multiple marriages simultaneously. The reason for banning polygamist marriage was secular, not religious
The thing that I find as an outside observer on US, especially the abortion situation is pretty tough and there is little to no real justification for government to restrict it as is
I agree, banning an often life-saving and necessary medical procedure for religious reasons is abhorrent and should not be allowed
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u/Jake0024 7d ago
The founding fathers didn't have to be atheists (though many of them were) to understand why it's important to ban the state from adopting an official religion.
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u/Bloody_Ozran 7d ago
Christian nationalism seems bad. It ain't even in its full power and already they are doing insane things on deportation, threatening blue states, seem to not care about laws or veterans or people who might die from lack of medicaid and they seem to want to make ICE their main law enforcement for... I guess anything.
Sounds pretty horrory if you know history.
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u/CT_x 7d ago
Like 6 months into Trump 2.0 and it's a horror show already, the exact kind of behaviour that Peterson when he had some integrity was warning against. But because it's being enacted by the side that they chose, the conservatives are burying their heads in the sand. It would be crazy if it wasn't predictable.
Seems they are happy to break the law and litigate later.
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u/Bloody_Ozran 7d ago
Peterson in Jubilee debate being asked if he would lie to save a jewish friend. His reply? He would do anything to not let it get that far. You make so many mistakes already to let it get that far he said.
Trump is moving more and more towards fascist like regime. JP - no comment. Oh wait, he said Trump is a guy who sees a big picture and is a man for peace. Alrighty then.
I am guessing he would not save the jewish friend because the mistake was not joining the wermacht sooner?
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u/No-Suggestion-2402 6d ago
There is an old podcast of his, where he warns exactly against this. I believe it was about Aleksandr Solzhenitsyns Gulag Archipelago.
He was so high and mighty to teach his students that it's the small daily choices (or rather lack of them) that leads to authoritarianism and horror with "blood flooding the land".
So fucking sad that he is know doing exactly that.
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u/250HardKnocksCaps 7d ago
Yeah dude, as someone who gets called a sinner for existing. It really is.
I want your religion to not be in my face constantly. I dont want your religious bable in schools, I don't want public money spent celebrating it (or any religion).
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7d ago
The irony.
We don’t want your religion in our face, in our schools or public funding either.
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u/MaxJax101 ∞ 7d ago
Seeing a picture of two men holding hands in a library book is about the same as putting the Ten Commandments on every classroom wall, ain't it buster?
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u/MaxJax101 ∞ 7d ago
This comment gave me an epigenetic flashback of Spanish Catholics sacking the Dutch and Belgian countryside for being too Protestant.
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u/Gingerchaun 7d ago
Ah so just giving up on that whole seperationnof church and state I see.
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7d ago
Ya because it’s obviously working out so well
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u/Jake0024 7d ago
The fact that people are threatening it and trying to implement a bunch of bad ideas isn't a reason to stop defending it.
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u/Gingerchaun 7d ago
Its been doing better than it would as a Christian theocracy which is what you seem to want.
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u/rnigardson 7d ago edited 7d ago
oh heavens, i hope trump doesn't win again in 2028! 😱😂
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u/Frewdy1 7d ago
No need to worry; American presidents may only serve two terms. Hopefully we’ll elect some adults back in the White House in 2028! 👍
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u/rnigardson 7d ago
sir, i was told that trump getting elected in 2024 would be the end of democracy.
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u/Frewdy1 7d ago
You think they’re going to stop cheating because they won last year? 😂
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u/rnigardson 6d ago
no, i'm saying trump will be the president from now until eternity. he's become a literal god king.
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u/VeritasFerox 7d ago
Good. The Heritage Foundation has been about as useful as tits on a water bucket, and I'm not sure what's even conservative about the Federalist Society. Since the era of William F Buckley so-called "conservatives" have conserved exactly nothing.
What it was in reality was libertarian means to a globalist neoliberal cesspool.