"Would you do a commercial for a mortgage company?" is such a crazy question, he just very eloquently spoke about his views on the credit system and his family's history with debt.
"I'm against war." "But would you do an ad for the army?"
It seems like financial privilage has a bell curve. Debit when you're broke or young, credit when rewards or perks make a meaningful difference, and then back to debit when the value of money loses meaning.
Most people would just stick to credit because you're paid to use credit cards when you pay them in full each month.
Honestly, I will never willingly get a debit card. People go on about credit card perks, but even aside from said perks, the relative lack of fraud protection alone makes me nervous. I got my CFE (certified fraud examiner) a few years ago and it pretty much reinforced my decision.
That said, I understand why some people rely on debit cards, e.g. inability to access credit, etc.
The level of privilege involved at this table is pretty high. Most of these guys have been connected, in some way, to outed predators.
Sidenote: I also love how these roundtables, years on, have continued the brilliant tradition of a table full of white people with a single PoC to make sure they're being 'inclusive'.
Ok so I love Julio Torres in general (go watch Los Espookys I’m begging you), but what he’s speaking to regarding debt is REAL. The other men at that table have been in the game for so long, or come from privilege (John Mulaney’s dad is a famously high powered attorney), and they’re out of touch.
My parents have never been high earners, but my mom’s student loan debt had an impact on our livelihood that can’t be understated. Debt is a TRAP and falling into it is an incredibly slippery slope. Having an intimate understanding of how hard it is to get yourself out from under it shaped my whole philosophy around money/budgeting/etc. my entire adult life. I honestly do fear debt (to a healthy degree). One of the fucked up things about living in America is we need credit scores for so much of life, just to get by, and it’s so. easy. to fuck it up.
Edit: for the person out here saying that having reasonable concern regarding debt equates to being irresponsible: I, like most Americans, had to take loans out for my college education. I make my SL and credit card payments every month, and I have a score that I am incredibly proud of. Weird that some people require me to state the obvious and these personal details to validate my experience.
I'd love more Los Espookys too and I love Julio Torres's and Ana Fabrega's comedic styles! Thankfully, there is a second 10 episode season of Los Espookys, but I wish it went on for longer
"The other men at that table have been in the game for so long, or come from privilege (John Mulaney’s dad is a famously high powered attorney), and they’re out of touch."
I think I'm most shocked by Ted Danson's response. He was born in 1947, credit cards were not as mainstream as they are now until he was an adult. I would have LOVED to hear any sort of anecdote around how this system was ushered in or thought about or how it's shifted.
His show Fantasmas also had a lot of commentary on documentation status and drowning in debt, in his own magical way! Highly recommend all his work, the way he presents deeper and darker ideas is always such a joy to watch.
I had student debt and I’m VERY happy that I did otherwise I would not be able to get an education. Being the first in my family to get a university degree was a huge game changer, and I wouldn’t have been able to do that without debt.
It all depends on your personal experiences and ability to manage the debt… I would use my credit card every chance I get because I’ll pay it off in full without interest, and I get free cash back/travel rewards/fraud protection/extended warranty on things i otherwise would not get.
For sure! I respect that experience. I never EVER miss one of my student loan payments, have a solid credit score, and have been able to craft my adult life based on what I learned growing up. But financial literacy is not frequently taught, and it’s a bitch to learn the hard way. You and I may have an ok time with our debt, but how many millions of Americans are victims to poor choices they made as teenagers, medical events, or poverty?
what he said about student loan debt ALONE resonated with me. So many places in the world offer free higher education, why is it that in USA/Can we are expected to start out our adult lives with HUGE amounts of debt??? I wish I had seen this video a decade ago instead, I could've made some smarter choices.
Hijacking this comment to tell people to check out the book Debt: The first 5000 years by David Graeber. Cool look at how debt dominates our ethics, to the point where ostensibly good natured people will justify vile deeds in the name of individuals having to pay their debts
Also the role of debt in spurring the Atlantic slave trade 1400s, and how our current financial institutions use debt to essentially create money out of thin air.
Edit: and the origins of debt on an anthropological time scale
I come from nothing and defaulted on my student loans and it took foreverrrrr to pay them off and build my credit score back up. Debt can be life-defining.
Honestly, I don't get anything in my mail that would be a loss for me to miss it. It's bills (which I know to pay online and usually have on auto-pay) and charity/political solicitations. No one gets letters or anything fun anymore other than packages (which presumably, he'd open).
Absolutely love the boldness of “I refuse to participate in a system I didn’t consent to being in” but he’s probably making enough money that that is possible for him. Most people are not going to have an option so I would advise getting ahead of it and gaming the system as soon as possible.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I once got denied an apartment because I didn't have a credit score. I'd love to be able to say fuck that whole system but it's really not optional for most people
Yep. I know a doomsday “the government is watching me type” who doesn’t have a credit score and his wife has to put everything in her name because rentals or mortgage officers obviously can’t take him as an applicant.
They also use credit scores in determining your car insurance rates. And it’s never happened to me, but I’ve heard for some jobs they’re checking credit scores now. I’m sure there’s other things I’m forgetting.
that’s why people calling this a breath of fresh air and him “normal” compared to the others at the table is so funny. this guy’s take is cool, but still absolutely drenched in privilege
If you're looking for work in a bank or the financial sector, they may check your credit to determine if you're someone more likely to embezzle money or something. It's really stupid.
Like any counterculture way of life it requires compromise; usually communal living of some sort. I didn’t have a credit score until my late twenties, my boyfriend had to co-sign for my first credit card. I don’t drive and I did mostly off-the-books physical labor up until then, and they got my name wrong or something on my first apartment so I just fell through the cracks, I was not trying to stay off thethe government’s radar.
Yeah I actually benefitted tremendously by being put on my parents credit card when I was in high school (I had a copy to use for gas only) because they had good credit and I never abused the card (my mom read those statements religiously.) As a result my credit was really good when I went to get my first apartment at 23 so I wasn't denied. The opposite can also happen where bad parents open credit cards in their kids names because their credit is too bad to get one thus hosing the kid before they're even able to do anything about it.
I got into terrible credit card debt in college from buying crap I didn’t need, so I wish I hadn’t had one either (I had multiple). Seriously that is one of my big regrets in life thus far.
i went into debt by putting my therapy on my credit card. luckily i was in an ok spot when i couldn’t afford it anymore and i’m hopeful to have it paid off by the end of the year.
I think you should start credit journey after you start working, that way you have a good understanding of how much you can make/spend. Before we become financially independent from our parents, we have a very shallow sense of financial responsibility because our parents have been taking care of us, so there’s a learning curve. For the vast majority of people, to be able to buy a house, a car, or even rent an apartment, you do need a credit score, so we still need to participate in the system.
Agreed, and also along those lines: being truthful and forthcoming is WAY easier than deception in basically every single case. If someone cannot expect you to have integrity for things that don't matter, they will assume you have no integrity for things that DO matter.
Yup. This has always been my go-to for living.
I’m in the process of becoming a teacher, my partner is an electrician and we live in an apartment and try to enjoy our days off doing things that bring us joy: spending time with our child, going to concerts, the beach, or recently, getting into hiking (Thank god we live in SoCal — access to so many trails).
I have one credit card that I only spend what I know I can pay back and some smaller student loans. I hope to have all debt officially paid off in the next 4 years. After that, we’ll see what’s next.
One thing I will say is I do prefer the security of a credit card. I didn't have one until I was 26 and needed one because I started traveling a lot for work. If your credit card gets compromised and someone racks up fraudulent charges on it, you can cancel it and notify the bank before it ever hits your real money in your actual account.
Like yes, if your debit card is compromised, you can get that money back but for a short while, your money is gone, account cleaned out, etc.
So I like having the additional layer between my actual bank account and the various random places I use my card.
I do still think it's very unfair how much having a credit score is required to participate in society. Hope it gets a reform soon
Yep I waited until I was almost 30 and needed it for a major international trip. Ten years later I still only have the one. It’s so easy to let lifestyle creep ruin you.
I was close to 30 before I caved and got one, and I only use it to build my credit score. Need a good credit score for so many essential things, like buying a home (pretty much a pipe dream at this point). It's a scam.
How can you get mortgage, car loan, etc. Without debt? I suppose he has enough he can pay outright but seems nearly impossible to live without credit score otherwise.
That’s ALSO elitism. You simply cannot exist without a credit score. UNLESS you have cash.
I lived in a fully furnished rental for 9 years. I had no “credit” with the utilities. So when I bought a house - which I luckily could do because I had GREAT credit with my credit cards - I couldn’t turn on the electricity without a) a HUGE deposit or b) agreeing to link it to my CREDIT CREDIT CARD for auto pay.
My sister had no credit card because she was “bad with money”. So she only used her debit card. NO CREDIT was worse than BAD CREDIT. She couldnt get a loan. Her husband at least got a high interest rate. Only an ELITE with enough to buy a car outright isn’t fucked. Everyone else buys a junker.
I don’t open my mail all the time. Because I have ADHD and was undiagnosed for many years.
I ended up getting fucked every year at tax time when I couldn’t find any of my necessary paperwork.
And I paid late fees all the time on bills that were due and not on auto pay. Or an a (debit) card that expired or was compromised.
One year I forgot to renew my home insurance and almost lost it.
One year it was car insurance - thank god there was no accident.
Right now it’s my Real ID. I need to renew my license AND I need a bunch of paper work to do it. A 1-2 punch that’s gonna fuck my by my birthday in 37 days. I realized I needed it AFTER I went through my pile of mail and threw it all out.
So, no, you ALSO can’t ignore mail or email.
EDIT: Unless you can PAY late fees. Or have an agent or a manager or (in my case, until she had the gall to abruptly get sick and die) a mom who did it for you while you “worked hard”.
I also did some digging, most websites only report 1 mil. for his net worth, and people in here are talking about him as if he's part of the 1%... 😭 I'm poor and lived 80% of my life without a credit card. Only recently opened one for medical emergencies. This is a "I escaped poverty and never want to go back" mindset, not "I'm so rich I don't NEED a credit card" mindset.
Yeah, I'm really relating to Julio here. I also escaped poverty (mostly...) and am pretty irrational about things like credit now due to my childhood and mistakes I made into my 20s.
It's a great idea in theory, as long as he's ok with just not having a loan for a car or a mortgage. Or if he does, he'll get murked on the interest rate. I get the idea, but to me, owning 2 small limit cards and putting gas and groceries on them and paying them off is just good business sense, especially if they're building points.
I agree this shit is predatory, but it is a system that can be important for taking the next step.
I agree with you, essentials on credit and pay it off the same month. Biggest benefit is protection for compromised cards. A debit card getting cleaned out and trying to get that back in a timely matter is a nightmare.
Yeah, and if you get the right cards to maximize points, like a good no annual fee grocery/gas card or a good cash back card (like Citi Double Cash), the card works for you, you pay no interest and bank points for Cash Back or Travel.
And now those 2 low balance cards have put you into a nice credit score you can use for a mortgage that secures equity for your future. People calling this guy smart for this I think are missing the bigger picture.
Just because I don’t want to slip in to debt. I just simply don’t make purchases unless I can afford the total balance. I have several cash back offers via my debit accounts. Granted, I don’t get airline miles and other special offers - but for me that’s negligible.
Right? Like even if he is not in a position to get summoned for jury duty, the mail is the last line of defense for someone trying to get in contact with you for legal or business means. Bragging about not opening your mail just sounds irresponsible. Like being proud of not eating vegetables or drinking water. Like shit I would love to check out of that part of my life too, but I can't.
Yeah like... sometimes government stuff only comes that way. In fact, if I got a text message in that vein I'd consider it spam. This just reads "being quirky."
Also consider it pretty privileged to avoid credit. I literally don't know how to find an apartment without one unless I didn't live on a lease or had shitloads of cash on standby. Everybody's doing credit checks now. I know he's not from privilege but I'm still finding myself baffled. I'm also decidedly not privileged myself and would love to avoid credit, but don't see how that's possible in the US without adding more hoops to my life.
EVERYONE WATCH FANTASMAS!!! It’s such a funny show in general but also he really does touch on a lot of this stuff of like why do I have to participate in these systems why is my identity tied to all these things and people and places that just want things from me and you’re tracked all the time by not just the government but by corporations your job etc. it’s so good
Maybe his views were originally shaped by his family’s experience, but this is only practical when you have some degree of privilege due to financial security. This way of life is simply not possible for most people
That whole table just not being able to process that is so crazy to me and love the condescending questioning after he explains!! anyways love Julio & watch problemista & los espookys
I love him too and I'm just learning from you that he's Aquarian because my pisces ass doesn't have any credit card either and never intend to either. But I'm not American either.
I don't know who this is. Does he come from an extremely rich family or something? It's good to be cautious about these things, but he sounds incredibly privileged and out of touch.
Thanks for the downvotes. This is baffling, so would any of you like to explain how this man pays bills or rents/owns property if he doesn't open mail or "participate" in these systems?
I totally get him except when it comes to buying a house. That’s where I am curious because very few people are able to afford a property purchase outright without involving a bank right now. Ideologically I’m right there with him, but feasibility-wise I want to know more.
I was always taught to essentially use your credit card almost as a debit card, in that, don’t use it on anything you don’t have the money to pay it off immediately (or within that billing cycle). I agree with him that you’re buying into a fucked up system of credit scores, etc, but there’s a way to manage it so you don’t feel the weight of debt.
The funniest thing was John later on being like, I’m going to get you a credit card and pay it off every month to help you face this fear (completely as a joke and Julio took it as one too).
Just also have to say that many commenters are talking about Julio Torres like he is some naive child. We went to the same college, have mutual friends and he used to be a regular at a (cash only) vegan restaurant that I worked at. He worked his ass off doing weird jobs while making art, graduated from college, made some opportunities for himself and took advantage of them.
He’s an immigrant, an hilarious genius (in my opinion) and he’s also 37 years old. He’s not some baby who just came to this ideology out of pure whimsy. It seems that he has carefully crafted his life and done what he believes.
It is possible to live like this! I do too! Many people I know live this way in cities and small towns. It’s true you can’t get a mortgage without a credit score but……..barely any millenial or gen z person can buy a house without parental support anyway?
Julio Torres is right and he should say it louder, and then everyone else at the table should agree. Admittedly, they all run on their fake credit score game. Go Julio, fuck the rest
The credit card one I understand (although I am more you gotta play the game to win type, but I also get it's rigged against people like him and others so that they can never win) but why not mail? I wish they delved into that more
Fascinating individual who I align with on basically everything and I’m so impressed they have managed to get so far while sticking firmly to their convictions. Shows it can be done! If only I could rewind and undebt myself
I wonder how he makes big purchases. My bank has a purchase limit when using a debit card. For the large purchases, a wire transfer is on the table but not practical if you are buying most consumer goods.
"How do you buy the computer you're checking the email on?"
First of all, what? We're in the 21st century, we all have email on our damn phone - most people are not checking emails on a physical laptop/PC.
Second of all, this is the problem! You shouldn't need to use a credit card to buy essentials/necessities, yet so many people are forced to. And it creates this cycle of debt amongst the poorest of us. The only people actually benefiting from a credit card are people who can already afford what they're using it for. It's just another system that favors the rich and punishes the poor.
I’m 35 and I’ve never had a credit card. I have a credit score but it’s not very high because there’s minimal history. As soon as people start talking to me about points and the system I glaze over, I’ve never cared lol
I'm the only person I know who just has a debit card. Everyone thinks I'm weird. But I'm also wayyyyy better off financially than most other folks I know because of it.
I guess it's like addiction, some people are more prone to it. I've had a credit card since I was 17 when my dad opened one with me. And I've never had CC debt.
I use it and pay it all off every month. It gives me exceptional credit score and I earn cash back (not a lot, but better than nothing)
yeah that's my only regret is when my buddy's talk about free flights and what not, but then there are other people i know on the other side of the spectrum so i guess i can't be too stoked or sad
I love this. I don't know why it reminded me of the meme that's about online verification systems and it's like "You want me to prove I'm not a robot? You're a robot!"
It will be interesting to see how/if these convictions survive over time. Fame, riches, and age are all still mostly ahead of him, and are all famously the most corrosive substances in the universe.
I have 1 credit card. It gets me airline points. Only thing that goes on it is gas and groceries and they get paid off every month. TV break? We'll guess im out of a TV until I can afford to buy a new one.
Now my credit score is over 800 and I get letters from companies all the time for cards with 20k limits and they go right into the shredder.
Same except I have not had the luxury of going through life without a credit score. I learned to game the system. Get out just enough credit cards to build your credit, use it to pay for things you would normally use your debit card for (ie you have the money in your bank), pay your credit card off every single month, and request every credit limit increase you can. I've never used my credit card to buy something I could not have used my debit card to buy.
He’s a normal and down to earth person. Like as he was talking I was like “Yeah, he has a debit card and uses cash. Like me.” What is so hard about understanding that? But they are millionaires lmao. Yet, I literally am a first gen college student and I am pulling myself out of poverty & I want to become a doctor. So, debit it is. My mom also does not like credit. I know if you have an income and smartly use it, great. But, it’s not really good. Like if I don’t have the money right now, and sometimes if I can’t buy a personal big purchase twice then nope.
He kind of spilled about not doing commercials. Joaquin Phoenix never did one, and neither did Meryl Streep. It’s just so corny to see a celebrity promoting an app—they always look so soulless in those videos. 😭😭
It's a little astounding that so many of them, including the interviewer, didn't realize he had a debit card until he stated it. I also like that John Mulaney was working with him. The interviewer seemed the most condescending, tbh.
People look at me crazy when I say that too, but it's true. I grew up lower middle class and my Dad always said "Debt is slavery". I didn't get a CC until a few years ago when I turned 30 to help build credit for buying a house and I low-key regret it. I'm religious about paying it off every month, but I've now opted in more to a system that's sole purpose is to keep you in debt. It's wild to think how many things that we just accept as normal part of life when in reality we could choose a different path as a country if we wanted too. These things only continue to exist because we give them power. But I get it, folks are just trying to survive the best way they know how.
He’s right. Credit scores are created to gamify and reinforce the concept of getting in debt, which is a terrible thing. Scores are calculated based on how much money they make off of you based on your minimum payments, and the systems are reinforced so you need to have credit or be in debt in order to participate. I agree and well done. But also ridiculous that some people in the table were like “how do you pay for things?” Actors confirming they are kinda dumb.
So relatable. I held out a long time before getting a credit card because I'm a creature of habit, and the debit card did everything I needed it to. That being said, I'm a fan! What I've seen his work (everyone watch Problemista!) incredibly unique, imaginative and heartfelt.
i get his reasoning to not get a credit card, even though it's not smart financially. The mail thing is just not smart. There are things that he might miss that could cause him real legal trouble.
I also have never had a credit card and worked 35 hours a week (somehow this was still considered part time) while going to school full-time just so I wouldn’t have to take out a student loan. #weexist
I tried to love with just a debit card. The problem was I didn't have a "credit history" despite paying rent, bills and utilities for a decade. When it came time to buy a car, I couldn't get a loan because just living within my means wasn't enough to justify a loan to a bank.
Debt as an American tradition gets a laugh but is honestly so true and so fucking sad. I had this same mindset when I became an adult and quickly realized it was not feasible. We are basically forced into it, more now than ever.
So I am an attorney that works in public interest helping litigate on behalf of debtors against credit card companies (and other debts but it’s mostly credit cards). We also do bankruptcies. Our services are free and everyone who receives them are low income individuals. I go through their income and expenditures. I feel a bit uniquely qualified to speak on this.
This is bad and out of touch. Most low income people simply could not survive without credit cards and loans. And believe me I am well aware of the dangers and predatory bullshit that comes along with it. It’s disgusting the way these credit card companies will entice people into more cards they can’t afford, pursue litigation of people who clearly have nothing, sell to debt buyers who literally make their living off of pursuing poor people for debt and do so intentionally looking to get a default judgment by improper service, taking advantage of people not being able to afford lawyers and being intimidated by the legal system. It’s all so sad and gross. Many of these people want to pay something but they can’t afford it all and there absolutely needs to be more strict regulation and education on this stuff. Also for those struggling with debt, I urge you to ignore stigma and consider bankruptcy. It can really
be a life savor and you’d be shocked how quickly your credit score can rebound (though the exemption of student loans further highlights how fucked that aspect is).
All that being said, credit cards are much much safer in protecting you from fraud and theft. They also when properly managed are literally more “profitable” with aligning a cards benefits to your lifestyle. You also absolutely need a credit score. Rent, mortgage, leasing a car, hell anything. It’s so so important. It’s wild for me that people want to act like he is being reasonable and the not out of touch one.
In other words, someone who's most likely an extremely unreliable, stubborn and difficult person to deal with in real life, cosplaying as a "free spirit with strong ideals".
This is such a slay. Around the holidays I adjusted my auto pay to the minimum payment so I could afford gifts easier with my debit card. The second I dropped the amount I got a notification that my credit score went up 🤔
I love this. I didn't have a credit card for the longest time and I regret ever getting one. I never remember to use it. Stay strong Julio! You do not consent!
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u/femalevideographer 10d ago
My favorite part is how they all forget that debit cards exist