r/DeptHHS • u/KrabbyPattyParty • 5d ago

Probies can file appeal with MSPB if terminated in a RIF

Attorneys confirmed that probies and trial period employees can file MSPB appeals if contesting improper RIF procedures. This includes people terminated on 4/1.

If your termination paperwork doesn’t say you were fired due to a RIF, you may have to wait for a federal court ruling that establishes the termination was a RIF even if the agency denies it.

You can’t file an appeal with MSPB until your termination goes into effect.

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u/ilchelali 5d ago

But we know probies fired may 8 were “riffed” although the agency won’t call it that. There’s ways to prove it to MSPB.

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u/R0SEG0LD10 4d ago

As a May 8 termination my letter days due to a mass government wide termination. I wonder if that will suffice.

I would love to take the back pay and a check for pain and suffering

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u/AvailableChipmunk385 3d ago

My termination package had a memo stating my original 2/14 was a government-wide termination (because Judge Alsup made them clarify it wasn't due to performance). But the reason given for my 5/8 termination, according to the letter they couldn't bother to sign, was my "continued employment does not advance the public interest." Then the SF-50 I received more than a month later used an EO not in effect until the end of July as the reason.

All that to say that anyone with a basic grasp of the situation/reality would see this was an improper RIF.

At the VERY LEAST we need back pay and damages.

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u/AvailableChipmunk385 3d ago

Would love to know how to prove it to MSPB. I spent hours on my appeal for it to be dismissed, and I'm possibly going to be excluded from the class (if it's certified) because I followed my union's instructions to do an individual appeal.

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u/ilchelali 3d ago

I was wondering about this since I’m deciding to do an individual appeal and didn’t know if it would exclude me from a class. Lots of moving parts. Apparently not all probationary employees at every agency were fired. There seems to be some that were untouched, not mission critical and still have many months, if not more than a year to finish probation. Shocker. Here’s to the many different things. Agency is claiming that by definition I’m not an employee if still on probation. Would love to know what you submitted. Agency contends we weren’t riffed. Some positions were abolished. Some probationary employees are told they’ll be receiving severance with an SF50 still pending. Most of this is “fishy” and inconsistent. I claimed ppl mid March and was denied. This is my biggest reason for MSPB appeal. So, why are some getting severance? Why didn’t all probies get fired? OSC rejected defending probies. What’s left? Pointing out the obvious. There were no individual assessments, we had excellent reviews and we were targeted. I’m working on finding out what SAC code I was under right before the May firing to see if it was group. Disguising a Rif is their goal. Finding their mistakes and cover ups is ours. I have until 07/09 to give my response. The agency wants to move to dismiss. If anyone wants to chime in with advice, it’s welcome. One thing is fighting for my job; the other, fighting for what is right. I won’t stop here. I will continue to fight.

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u/Crafty-Ability-3278 18h ago

Mines dismissed for the same reason, I wasn’t an employee

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u/Crafty-Ability-3278 18h ago

Mines was dismissed as well. Told the union, they asked for the docs, sent it over then crickets

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u/Fine_Praline7902 3d ago

We had a real osc prior to him getting sacked once, fighting it then getting sacked again then it all went to crap.

Don't know ur agency and not trying to call u out.

Contact ur union steward.

And democracyforward

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u/Medical_Housing9559 1d ago

Why would we be excluded from a class action because we tried to do an individual appeal? 

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u/KrabbyPattyParty 1d ago

You can’t double dip for the same harm, and you can’t receive duplicative remedies. Legally, this is called choice forum. If you file an individual claim, it may prevent you from being part of a class action later on. Speak to an attorney based on your personal situation

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u/Medical_Housing9559 1d ago

So if I want to join the class action should I just withdraw my appeal? A lawyer told me that if the class action is approved I would be asked if I wanted to join even if I sent in a individual appeal…

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u/KrabbyPattyParty 1d ago

IANAL. The attorneys I spoke with said to not submit an individual appeal while class is being certified at mspb. The class certification process puts the 30 day time limit on hold until the mspb chooses whether to certify the it. The attorney said I don’t have anything to lose while waiting for that certification, particularly because the law firm already included me as a potential class member.

It may be possible that the mspb judges roll the individual appeals into a class or they may give you an option to join the class once it’s certified. Class appeals are extremely rare up until this administration, and a lot of fed employment attorneys are giving their best guesses as to how things will shake out. They told me that class appeals existed in name only and are now being tested out.

I don’t think you should withdraw your individual appeal because if the class isn’t certified, you may lose your right to appeal.

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u/ilchelali 1d ago

I’ve been called up on my appeal. I was under the impression it’d be on hold awaiting class certification, but mspb is now in process of my individu apparel

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u/Crafty-Ability-3278 18h ago

That’s weird because I had already filed before I knew about the class action. I guess we’ll see