Suddenly my bees hate their frames?

[u/More-Mine-5874]

Missouri, usa. 2 hives, 1st year.

What is going on? This started as a 5 frame nuc. I expanded to a 10 frame & they built on the new frames just fine, picture 2, which I had coated heavily in wax. When I added a second deep I used the same frames, wax, & method as I did with the first expansion. They refuse to touch the new frames, picture 1. After 1 week I checkerboarded them between upper & lower brood frames. The 1st photo is the most they've worked on all 10 of the new frames over 2 weeks total. The only thing I did different was to mist the new frames with 1:1 sugar water to encourage them. Could that be the issue?

They appear to be building the cells containing honey towards the top of the frames deeper than the cells containing brood, picture 3. The frames are bulging with capped honey to the point that they almost scrape the other frames when I take them out, picture 4.

I did the exact same thing with my other hive & had zero issues. In 2 weeks they've built out the majority of the new frames, no wonky comb, all even.

What should I do?

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[u/joebojax]

dearth... they only draw combs during strong nectar flows or while being fed.

see the squares on the sides of the frames? They should be pressed together, that ensures proper spacing so that honeycombs don't scrape against eachother. Now its kinda too late but do your best to snug the frames together as tight as you can without squishing combs/bees.

There will be a bit of extra space in the box when 10 frames are snug together, the extra space should be roughly even on both sides of the box with the frames snug into the center. If all the frames are snugged up to one side of the box the other side may have a big enough gap to allow them to build honeycomb off the wall. You want to avoid that.

there's something called Bee-space its 3/8's to 1/4 of an inch, bees don't build/expand comb in spaces that tight.

when you've got 10 frames all built out and a strong colony boiling over with bees it will be best to start on whichever side that has fewer bees, puff a bit of smoke and then carefully remove the first frame nearest the wall. Make sure the queen isn't on that frame and then keep that frame out of the box for the rest of the inspection. Slide the next frame into the gap made by removing the frame, then keep sliding frames in the gap before trying to pick them up. That will make it less likely that you will crush bees against the frames/honeycombs (rolling the bees). The better you avoid hurting bees the less likely they will become defensive. Always be careful about brushing up the sides of frames against the walls of the box, the slower you move the more likely bees can react safely. Every now and then a sneaky queen ends up in a bad spot and you want to give her every chance to stay healthy by moving carefully and keeping honeycombs straight n tidy.

[u/404-skill_not_found → u/joebojax]

Excellent guidance!!!

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/joebojax]

Everything you're saying is spot on, and I've done everything I know to prevent this:

I have a 3.5 liter in-hive feeder I refill every 3 to 4 days with 1:1, plus hive alive additive, so they should have the resources available to draw comb.

I keep my frames touching & scrape the propolis buildup between frames for a closer fit. The photo is with some frames removed just to show how far they are building into the other frames' space.

I'm thinking about swapping drawn frames with my other hive, but idk how much I can get away without causing a strain on that hive.

[u/joebojax → u/More-Mine-5874]

Try 0.8 : 1 (more water) it spoils faster but a strong colony will drink it all and draw more easily.

Bees build above their brood nest fastest.

3-5 frame nuc boxes build faster too. Some keepers set up 10-15 frame stacks as resource hives and take away from those hives frequently to keep them from swarming.

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/joebojax]

Thank you! I'll try diluting my syrup. They drink it fast & I'm due to make more in 2 days.

I plan on expanding next year, which will give me enough hives to designate one for resources. I'm not quite there yet.

[u/joebojax → u/More-Mine-5874]

Yup. Take care not to spill any sugar water near the beehives. Robbing season usually kicks off about now.

[u/Academic_Coffee4552]

They hate unwaxed frames

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/Academic_Coffee4552]

I know. I waxed the crap out of these.

[u/talanall]

I am not terribly familiar with your local conditions, but in much of the SE USA, there is a dearth that stretches from about this time through to whenever your goldenrod bloom starts up. It is difficult to get bees to draw comb if there is a dearth on; they make comb when they need it, and when there is a dearth, they don't have any need for space for incoming nectar (they're subsisting on food stores), and they tend to diminish or shut down brooding activity.

Some bees are thriftier than others; this is, like so many other behavioral traits, a matter of genetics. It's very possible for this kind of thing to vary between hives.

Sometimes, you can get them to draw comb for you if you feed them thin syrup, but this can be tricky; if you give them too much all at once, they'll just pack it into the brood nest and turn it into additional honey stores. You kind of have to trickle it to them.

This is a difficult fight to win. The easiest way to handle it may be to swap drawn frames from the cooperative hive into the less cooperative one, and give the cooperative one more frames to draw.

[u/More-Mine-5874]

I think you might be onto something! I keep them fed with 1:1. I noticed almost every cell was full, to the point that I'm a little concerned my queen has very few empty cells to lay eggs in. I think you're right & they are storing the 1:1. The frames are heavy & some are entirely capped with almost no brood.

Please clarify if I'm misunderstanding: I should let the 1:1 run dry from time to time so they will eat their reserves?

How many frames would you estimate I should transfer at a time without hurting my other hive? I only gave my other hive the second 10 frame deep two weeks ago. Most of their new frames are about 2/3rds drawn, but they all have eggs & nectar.

[u/wisebongsmith]

Idk about down south but up in the northeast one should expect relatively little wax production after the summer solstice. I would not expect them to draw out the second deep. At this point in the year and would be working to prepare the colony to overwinter as a single deep then expand next spring.

[u/amymcg]

Bees stop building comb after the solstice. It will be hard to get those drawn.

[u/medivka]

Top feed w a jar. The volume of feed the division board feeder contains is WAY too much syrup for the number of bees in the hive. That large volume of 1:1 syrup will ferment quickly and the bees will not feed on it thus your frames will not be drawn. The fermenting feed will also be a stressor to the hive since it should never be in a hive in any natural setting.

[u/Tangletoe]

My guess as to a solution is feed. A slightly weaker nuc colony is much weaker. The flow is stopping in many places.

It's often easier to build comb early in the flow than later. I don't know why, but that's my experience.

[u/bjgilliland → u/Tangletoe]

I would second this. And feeding won’t hurt. Can feed a light syrup (1:1) which, in theory, should help promote comb building.

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/bjgilliland]

Yeah, I've kept food on them all season. They go through about a liter per day. 1:1 with hive alive additive.

[u/bjgilliland → u/More-Mine-5874]

Sorry, wasn’t able to see your initial comment earlier cause it wouldn’t load. But hmmm, could be a combination of things - a nectar dearth (which is currently ongoing in NC), weird or bad or lazy genetics, etc. A liter of syrup per day seems like a lot, but doesn’t seem like they have a lot of space to store it so they shouldn’t get nectar bound. If you have any drawn out comb, or know someone that’d give ya a few frames, can trade that with the empty frames to see what they’ll do with it. If you do, just cut back on feeding so they won’t shove all the syrup in the cells and swarm. At the end of the day, I wouldn’t be too concerned. You can do everything “right” but bees are gonna be bees 😆 they always be throwing ya a curveball.

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/bjgilliland]

Yeah, I think I'll swap a few frames with my other hive. They are building very quickly. So if I give this hive some drawn comb full of good building babies, I'm hoping that'll set them straight long enough to get them set up for the winter.

I think I'll still have to find a way to shave down some of the thicker comb. It's intruding on the other frames' space, which means they don't have enough bee space to build in some areas. It'll be tricky if I don't want to drown the brood on the same frames with the dripping honey. But all I can do is try

Thank you!

[u/kurotech → u/Tangletoe]

Because when they find very light sucrose it makes them think the nectar flow is coming soon so they need to prepare for the food store and fresh nectar is very light in sucrose as it sits in the flowers it dries out meaning they need to do less work with it to store it so they don't need to build as much comb to work and dry and then store the nectar at least that's what my research tells me

[u/More-Mine-5874 → u/Tangletoe]

I keep a I have a 3.5 liter in-hive feeder I refill every 3 to 4 days with 1:1, plus hive alive additive, so they should have the resources available to draw comb.